Sometimes it’s easier to just buy a business than it is to build one… especially if you’re looking for passive cash flow.
In today’s episode I interview Ken Courtright who is the co-founder of IncomeStore.com, which is a company that works with investors to help them buy and sometimes build completely passive income streams from online businesses.
This isn’t the first time I’ve covered the topic of buying vs building, if you like this show, catch my episode with Ace Chapman as well.
I originally met Ken at former guest Ryan Moran’s Freedom Fast Lane Live event in December and instantly knew I had to get him on the line to discuss a very unique business model he has.
In a nutshell…
Ken and his company will buy (or build) you a revenue generating website, they’ll manage every aspect of it and split the profits with you 50/50. But better yet they have a “performance guarantee” that ensures you earn a minimum 2 digit rate of return on your money… no matter what happens.
If you are open to hearing about a truly unique passive investment opportunity that is different than almost anything I’ve personally heard out there, tune in to this episode.
Ken is also the host of the podcast “Today’s Growth” available on iTunes here
Other links mentioned:
- Kent Clothier
- Memphis Invest
- Self Directed IRA Expert: GregHerlean.com
- Self Directed IRA Company Brad uses: Kingdom Trust
*This transcript was automatically generated by PopUpArchive service and does not differential speakers nor is it edited for complete accuracy. It does include timestamps however so if you read something interesting you can skip to the audio to hear it in full context.
I’ve got a fun episode today because it is directly relevant to something that I have a lot of curiosity and that I’ve explored you know quite a bit both in my personal and business life as well as some of the people who have been on the show before. So today I’m going to be introducing you to a guy named Ken court right now. I was just recently at in Austin at Ryan Moran former guest you may have heard just a couple of weeks ago Ryan Moran’s event called Freedom Fast Lane Live
and Ryan had some absolutely world class speakers some amazing people up there. And then he introduces. He goes Hey guys I’m going to bring somebody up he’s only got like 20 minutes to speak but I think he said he was here last year and he’s going to talk about buying income producing sites. So I don’t think he really did him justice but he you know Ken got up and he spoke and I know that I was on the edge of my seat thinking OK I’d like to hear him talk a lot more about this because everything he was saying was I don’t want to say too good to be true but it was like there was a lot of really good things that can. Was talking about with buying income producing web sites
and then having them in your portfolio. And then afterwards in the hallway I saw a whole bunch of people surrounding Ken asking him probably the exact same question a million times. And I kind of waited till the end where I just approached him I said look I’d love to have you on my show and explore this even further. So this is the topic we’re going to talk about so Ken is the founder of income store dot com. And today’s growth consultant dot com. And as I mentioned just a moment ago the big topic we’re going to be discussing is buying income producing web sites and either you know for
yourself and managing them or or having them do all the work for you. If you listen to a previous episode that I did with Ace CHAPMAN We talked a lot about buying web sites and businesses instead of building them from the ground floor and realizing that we’re in the business of of you know in business your own business a cash flow making money. So sometimes it’s crazy to think about building one from the ground floor because so many of them fail as opposed to going out and buying your cash flow from somebody who has already done the hard work. That being said I want to welcome you to the show Ken. It’s great to have you here.
Thanks for having me. Ken: Absolutely.
So I want to keep this a little different than maybe the traditional podcast where I say so and tell me how you got started. Tell me your backstory tell me all this other stuff that isn’t really pertinent to the really cool stuff you’re doing right now. Also I think I set the frame for what we’re going to talk about is kind of what you guys do and buying these sites your Web site. I guess your primary one is income store dot com right.
Yes. Pretty much the only one left the other one we shifted away from that in about 2009. So income stores call it flagship.
Awesome. Now you do an amazing job of explaining like you’ve got so many fake videos and what this is all about that I don’t want to belabor the ultra basics too much for people.
I kind of want to dive in if people go crap I get this and I kind of want to treat this as you know my a fake U.S. I cornered you this is my opportunity to get to kind of drill down to some of the questions you may get a lot but that I know are probably on a lot of people’s mind who decide to kind of work with you and kind of pursue this path.
But just real briefly you tell us in your words what you’re doing what the income store is all about and kind of your expertise.
The easiest way to explain what we do is to use the metaphor of real estate. So let’s say like I live near Chicago but let’s say I wanted to look into buying property physical rental property say in Indianapolis. But I didn’t have time to leave my job or leave my company but I knew Indianapolis was the hot spot. I would end up calling a project manager in Indianapolis a scout basically and say here’s my budget I’ve got say 1.5 million I would like 10 units five units and they would find me property they would help me
basically you know fix it get it ready for rental and then they would find me tenants and then they would manage those tenants in those properties and in return most property managers that work that way they get a slice of the revenues instead of a fixed monthly fee. And so we do exactly that. People come to us and they say hey can you know. I just sold my house I’ve got an extra say hundred thousand. I heard you guys can either build me or buy me a revenue generating Web site and then you’ll manage it for me and we’ll share the revenue. So basically what we do somebody will come
to us and say OK I’ve got a hundred thousand. What do I do. And then depending on what their needs are if they want just pure passive cash flow or if they want to generate leads for their business. It all depends on what their needs are. We will typically though we will do what’s called a hybrid. And we will buy them a website that is already making money. And then in the next 90 days we’ll also build one from scratch that is built on the exact same keyword silo of the one that we bought. And so in short within say 12 weeks that person who threw us a hundred grand now has an asset probably producing in the 20 to $50000 a year range and
then we split that right down the middle 50/50 and then we take our 50 percent of the revenue in perpetuity and continue to buy content continue to market that content and continue to put some payroll and profit in our pockets so we can keep that site growing. So in short in one sentence people throw us money. We then buy them or build them a website that makes money and then our 90 to 95 employees helped manage that asset until they determined they want to sell it and in exchange for that management we share 50 percent in both the ongoing revenue and 50 percent in the price above which they bought it at.
If it sells so they sell it for 200000 and they give 100. They get their hundred back and then we split the Oldridge of a hundred thousand fifty fifty.
Nice. I love it. And it is very simple and it’s actually it runs parallel to one of my closest friends former clients past interview guest Kent Clothier. He’s the his family and himself big in the real estate market and turnkey real estate is really the thing they have a company called the Memphis Invest and its exact same thing in real estate like you said. So their clients just say hey I want to buy a house an income producing a house. So their company goes out and buys the house and they you know they buy a house for a good price they renovate it.
They they put the tenants in place they manage it. And it’s hands off in other Clydes don’t ever even see that actual property they just get money deposited into their checking account and they want it. So it sounds like this is a very it’s a turnkey way for people to put their assets at work and not ever really have to worry about being you know technologically advanced or understand marketing right.
Well you you also said something. This is their asset it’s not ours. We don’t own any web site.
We manage other people’s assets. They get on the phone they have monthly update calls with us.
They tell us you know what they want done with the site next month next quarter if they want us to push the marketing harder so they’re involved. But at the same time it’s their asset that is absolutely managed and built by us so that’s a good word it’s a turnkey. It’s a turnkey position for them very similar to buying a franchise except they don’t have to work behind the counter.
Right. Have you used that even using turnkey and your marketing and you’re never use that. I would use that’s a very popular word because I’ve got a big background in real estate and it’s a word always used in real estate like turnkey means really hands off.
You know it’s so funny. I’ve heard it a million times and just never never correlated. But you might start to see that coming.
I love it.
So let me ask you a few more questions so the kind of sites that you guys either buy or build are they typically content based sites that generate money with advertising and basic like affiliate link revenue like Amazon or other stuff or because you’re not necessarily buying complex sites that are like e-commerce et cetera. Or are you.
Well we pretty much have a little bit of everything so I do have e-commerce. I do have Amazon I have some very large Facebook platforms but I would say we’re modeled after web M.D. which is the largest medical authority site on the planet. I think last year market watch said it made $570 billion from a single web site. Wow 90. Yeah 90 percent of that. Half a billion in revenue from one web site is just passive like Google Ad Sense just banner ads not necessarily to be clicked on but in general for branding per this for these large pharmaceutical companies so what the biggest companies in the
world quite frankly and what even the small businesses are looking for is called Toma top of the mind awareness. And the question is how in today’s digital age do you get on the top of the mind of your potential customer. And one of the ways you do it is old fashioned guerrilla marketing techniques and the biggest companies have figured out small mom and pops and entrepreneurs figured out if you can find a potential customer and then you can get in front of them on Facebook get in front of them with the retargeted campaign with an information based website. And you just stay in front of them. Eventually they’re going to make a decision about your product or your competitors product and if you have
top of the mind awareness from these branded ads you’re hitting home run. So we’ve built a platform knowing our goal was to get to a thousand web sites under management over a billion annual eyeballs which were going to hit this coming May. And if we can if we get to a billion eyeballs across our portfolio and you know somebody comes to us and says listen I you know I really need to get in front of a 46 year old female then we’re just going to look in our portfolio and say OK here’s 35 sites that match let’s do some branded ads and it will be another additional revenue stream for our Web site.
You basically got your own native ad network there. Pretty much yeah. Nice. I love that. OK so that and keeping them though like that is very probably keeps it easy to manage when it’s somewhat a lot of similar sites.
Yes I know it’s kind of funny you mentioned something.
I was I was talking about this too like probably the day after the meeting I was talking to a couple of good friends of mine who are not in the world of internet marketing and all and I can imagine I’ll say yeah this is kind of an interesting business model of what he’s doing et cetera. And they’re like. And I mention you know content base side of that you know generate revenue with banner ads et cetera. They go man nobody clicks banner ads Nobody likes those. And they thought because they never clicked banner ads that nobody does.
I think you realize that Google you know empire on people clicking ads right.
But Google does for a billion a month with people clicking on it.
Exactly. And like you said too it’s not always necessarily because of people pay you know cost per impression as well as cost per click. It’s not necessarily just making money. When people click sometimes it’s just having it up there. People will pay just to show you. All your.
And right now you can get one to one to ten bucks per thousand page views whether somebody clicks on your ad or not.
Right now your your filters when you go to purchase when you go to purchase a website or business because you’re not buying what your business truly is an income producing asset What are some of your filters like what what has to be in place for you to go out and acquire a site.
Sure. Yeah it’s it ends up being about a 20 page document. But some of the some of the highlights are we start with what’s called a digital footprint which happens to be the name of our annual conference in a digital footprint is like let’s look at Web M.D. again web M.D. has been around exactly 20 years they’ve made more money every year than the year before they’ve never once gone backwards. And what they do their digital footprint is every year we’re going to ask more and more doctors to write something every month so they started with three doctors than 15 and 50. Now they’re up to five hundred and five. So as the world changes
and I don’t know if I had time to talk about this on stage but one fourth of every search in the Google search bar is first time they’ve never seen it before they have no idea.
So you’ve got to I just saw that somewhere in that statistic.
That’s amazing. So the fact is today one out of every four things typed into Google Google’s never seen it before they have no idea where to send it. So they use something called Rinck brain to determine where it goes. So what we want to do is we want to basically reverse engineer the Web site that’s already built in what we want to do is we’re going to look at a site let’s say it’s making $3000 a month the dish footprint will show us the last one to three years of its lifecycle. Who built it. How is it built. How many pieces of content how many pieces of content per week per month. Was it done by one author three authors five authors. Where has the link equity come from that’s holding up this website. Does it have what’s
called social signals. Does it have what’s called Author equity where the author of the content had some you know had some meat on the bone for their personal name. So we go through a bout I don’t know hundred hundred and twenty different data points. And if we believe that our team of writers can absorb this site in our portfolio see how it’s built. See what it currently ranks on and continue writing on the similar topics in a similar way.
But do more of it that’s the determining factor. So basically just to boil it down can we continue writing what it’s been writing on in a in a good or better way. And quite frankly can we write more. So if you can double the content which if you just take web M.D. in its simplicity they just keep doubling the content every three years. So if you double the pace of the content which is actually called content pace if you double the pace at which you put content in monthly Google has no choice there. Their algorithm is physically built to honor the Web sites that write quality
content where their content gets picked up and shared socially which can’t be faked and the ones that continue to increase their pace. Google increases the rankings.
Nice. Nice. OK cool.
So yeah there’s a formula to that. So you’re looking for the quali ones there what about like longevity of the site are you. Or would you consider buying a site that’s just been up for 12 months for instance.
Oh for sure yeah definitely. I mean I bought sites have been up for quite frankly five weeks. It depends on what we’re seeing right. If I already have a site that is in a in a in a vein of let’s just take wine you know we own wine dot net with a partner. And you know if a site comes up in it’s only say two months old. But I can tell it exactly matches what we already own. And I know my writers very dominated in one site with it. They can then definitely jump on that second one if it’s in a similar vein. I don’t need a lot of backstory or a big digital footprint with that.
Nice. Okay great. So let’s talk about you know what kind of multiples are you buying these sites for.
Do you have any kind of rules that are in place.
We used to we used to only buy it two times earnings and because we have bought hundreds of sites from the five largest Web Web site brokers in the world where we’ve somewhat influenced the market. So the cost of a good site has gone up from an average of about 1.7 times earnings when we started to about 2.6 times earnings now. So it’s just pure supply and demand. So what we’ve done is we’ve actually kind of rebuilt our relationships with these brokers and will now get sites before they even the list so we can prove to the sellers that they should work with us at
closer to a two times earnings. And the reason is we’ll end up keeping the sill around as a co-owner with our half of the revenue for the life of the site. And so they end up still getting 2.6 times earnings roughly.
Okay. So in essence you’ll basically went by like half of the kind of available by the whole thing out.
But we’ll then cut them in on revenues for say up to five to 10 years you know with it with a tiny piece of the revenue. Quite frankly just because we want to consult with them you know they built it. It’s their baby and we just we want to keep that ingenuity and that vision and it’s worked really well for us.
So then are you typically in a case like that like let’s say I’ve got to site and buy for a hundred thousand dollars will you.
Will it be a part cash in a kind of a part.
No no no. I’m going to give you a hundred grand. I’m going away are you a hundred grand The next day.
And then you’re going to potentially keep a portion where I can still get returns from this as well.
Yes correct. If you are selling a cipher and I bought it for you for 100. Nice. Let’s say you were listing it for 115. I mean nobody’s going to give you 115 but they’re going to be a hundred. And I’d give you a hundred if it’s a quality site but I’d also probably give you a maybe a couple hundred bucks a month for the next five 10 years.
Nice. Yeah. So that sweetens the pot and a lot of other people are probably not going to do that because they would probably come in and say well I’ll give you I’ll give you 80. You know and that I’ll pay I’ll pay out the rest over time.
Right. Well that’s exactly how it’s going to go. The typical site sells with a half down. And the other half on a six month earn out. It’s a numbers hold and the numbers seldom hold. There’s a reason they’re selling it.
Yeah. Yeah when I sold my first business I got to fight tooth and nail. Luckily I got all the cash up front but they wanted it. They started off what do you know part cash part owner of Finance I wanted out.
So it was it was a battle. But yeah that was that was great. And I would have loved to have gotten that deal where I got all my cash plus possum.
Cool so what about. OK let’s talk about income expectations now. I’ll get to that.
Like you mentioned the the word and guarantee on it on stage we’ll get to that in a second. But typically I give you a hundred thousand dollars. I know you never won one you said it typically takes about 12 weeks or so to start for me. Earn income but what kind of income can I expect especially if you are you know depend on where you’re buying this. Is there a range.
No I’m not.
I mean yes I mean the reality is revenue generating Web sites are revenue generating Web sites very similar to rental property. I mean unless you take a rental property in Manhattan versus a rental property in Cleveland Ohio obviously for the same square foot the rents are going to be higher in Manhattan. So same with same with with Web sites certain sites in certain industries take wine. Obviously if the site has more traffic it’s going to have probably more revenue. So it’s kind of like the higher traffic sites are like buying Manhattan the lower traffic sites are buying Cleveland.
But the big the cost is completely dictated hardline by the revenue and roughly say two times earnings so just a rule of thumb if somebody gives us a hundred I’m going to buy an asset for them at two times earnings or to say it definitely I’m going to buy them an asset producing a 50 percent return. Does that make sense so far. Absolutely. OK. We’re going to split it down the middle. So the person that funded it has an asset that’s receiving about 25 percent a year on their money. And then my company gets 25 percent a year on their money and their asset. But I have to take my 25 percent and chop it into thirds one third
at least one third is going to buy a tremendous amount of content. One third is going to then market that content and get the world to see it in the other third hopefully goes to payroll and profit. If you use that formula in almost 90 percent of all industries that has enough money to grow this site on a fairly steady basis. Now you mentioned a guarantee he’s going to jump right to that. Well what we did is we realized a couple of few years ago that wow some of these sites are seasonal and we actually didn’t put the guarantee in to necessarily benefit
the Web site partner per se we did it for ourselves because the guarantee allowed us to say okay if we’re going to guarantee like of $100000 deal we’re probably going to do a consulting performance agreement like a property management agreement that will guarantee say 12 to maybe 15 or even 18 percent on that 100 grand.
However I’m going to chop that up in the Monthly’s so I’m only passing out say a thousand to 1300 a month. That way if the site is seasonal I don’t get pinched. We’re in the old days if seasonal sites would kind of crimp us during the slow spots which are black Friday the January 23rd the January February payouts for some reason we just were we were getting hit in the gut there. And so what we ended up doing is we instituted this guarantee which says quite frankly it’s called the act of God clause. It says if something happens to this Web site for any reason including an act of
God and this revenue drops for months in a row below the minimum we have 31 days to build you or buy you a new one to get that minimum met. And we have to do that out of our own personal operating capital now we’ve only had to do that four times out of 800 plus sites. We’ve had to think about it 11 times so seven. Seven of those sites we look at it we analyzed it it got close to four months in a row and we were either able to bring it back quickly or it just never hit that four month in a row. But in four occasions it did and we actually in two occasions went out and bought
completely new sites in the other two occasions we just built a couple of small ones because it was only missing by a couple hundred bucks a month. And then now that person just happens to have two sites and they’re well above their minimum. So the bottom line of the guarantee is saying that our company is going to stand by our management of that Web site. And if you know something tragic including a Google algorithm update like in 2013 we almost got just mocked. I mean who’s there every six weeks it was this that the other end. But it took us 18 months and just grinding it out. We’ve got almost every one of them just really really humming
again and some of the ones we thought we were going to lose turned out to be some of our best sites ever so beautiful.
So back to that moment.
So you said that OK so if it falls if it falls below the minimum for four months in a row that’s when you have to say OK we’ve got to make this good by I guess so that minimum is typically what like as it is that’s a minimum income for I’ve done I’ve done minimums based on the contract because it’s based on what again what their goals are.
So their goals are just OK I just would like some revenue some some passive passive revenue or other goals Greenall I need leads for my business. I NEED THIS I NEED reputation prevention reputation management. I need all these different things. I’ve done guarantee’s in a contract which goes in perpetuity from as low as 11 percent I’ve even done one as high as I think 23 24 percent. Wow. It’s all different because every like you said earlier every website is a business.
So when we look at something I give you a couple of great examples in the one gentleman I’m referring to was in the audience at Ryan’s event. His name is Dinesh Dinesh called us about a year ago and him and his brother brothers out of Dubai. I think they stole the piece of property or something and they threw us I think 180 180000. We ended up buying a site that was making I think I think his his guarantee is something like 22 to 30 200 a month or something like that. And it involved two different web sites and that was exactly one year ago November so 4th 13 months ago. And
that site went from three grand to five grand to nine grand 15 to 18 to 20 to 22 it just sort of came in at 23:8 last month. Wow. He’s now getting 12 grand a month. We’re getting 12 Granma now his minimum is only two or three. So he’s getting 400 percent above his minimum. And quite frankly that contract I think if I do the math it’s paying him like 70 80 percent a year on the contract. And if he sells it you know he put in 180. He could easily get some. Because you can sell these. Believe it or not for for three to 10 times earnings because they’re now an authority site not a regular. I generally say which I can get to that later. But
so conceptually that was one. But we have a we have a much better story. Galen Costa Rica they sold their business they wired us I think a couple of hundred thousand and we ended up buying a site that did surveys for some very specific niche business or something I can’t remember. But again it was about a year ago and we put both our Google team and our Facebook team on this site immediately because it was a substantial site. The guarantee is fifty eight hundred and it went from six grand to 10 to 15 to 20 to 30 to 40 added 57000 last month.
So yeah. What do you think was the was there any specific reason.
Boy I know exactly the reason. So what we what we learned we did what’s called a focused six on February we took six sites and we put both our Google team and our Facebook team and I say that because growing a site to appeal to the Google search bar is completely different than going growing a Web site where you are using social and the mindset has to be different. The budgets are different. The timing is different everything is long term on the Google side short term on the Facebook site. And so what we did. Unbeknownst to us is we took six sites and we wrote a marketing plan that just happened to involve both the Google team and the Facebook team and those
six web sites. If you combine them a year ago February roughly they combined net earnings were twelve thousand two hundred a month. And as of last month they did 126 thousand. So what we found is when you attack a Web site on the search engine optimization angle say one month and then you look at what group. Then you go right to the low hanging fruit the stuff thats at the top of page 2 and search and you attack it from every social angle you can you literally just annihilate that site with traffic from all the sources. We noticed Google has something called phone no
fear of missing out. And then Google says no wait a minute. What’s all this traffic going to what’s now on page 2. Most people don’t go to page two of Google and then they go what we musta missed something here. And they move those phrases from page to insurge to bottom of or middle of page one does that make sense because all the cars you had so many signals coming from.
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Must be an important goal.
We must have missed it. Let’s move it to page one to get in alignment with what the world’s looking for. And then they just change the digital footprint of our site so now we scan it again. Now there’s new stuff completely on the top of page 2. So then we hit it from SDL again for a month. We run the scan again and then we just attack with social. And so we’ve been with those six sites. We did a hit them from the north side with search hit him from the right side.
With social and just go nuts.
That’s amazing. I LOVE THAT. So you guys have the ability to really supercharge science especially when things are doing well. So yeah obviously it’s easy to talk about all the best case scenarios.
Have there been any horror stories like that. Yes I wrote I wrote my whole my whole first book online income navigating the Internet minefield is the story of our first 200 sites. It’s comical. Yeah. And we have got I have some better story since that book. We had one site.
It was in the it was in the industry of you would look things up for verification and we bought it in a marketing meeting. One of the guys a marketing team misunderstood my directions. He thought I said use our corporate debit card for pay per click in in a direct proportion to growth. That’s what he thought I said somewhat less so as the site was making five grand a month when we bought it. He did a paperclip campaign and got the net earnings to eight thousand. Well that grew three thousand three is
60 percent of 5. So he increased the paperclip budget 60 percent. Well the site then went to 18000 a month. He then doubled the budget again. It ended up going to 40000 a month in net earnings. And one of the competitors of that site saw the growth was so rapid so quick they purchased 400 pornographic links from Japan and Russia and in 72 hours they knew us. They basically annihilated the link pattern with crap links. You know black hat linked in Google shut us down they took us out of search. We got a
hold of Google because we have a relationship with them and they’re like you know what we are so sorry we see that that this is not real and we even know who did it. However our algorithm is mechanical you’re going to go in one by one and detax every single link manually. And there’s no way to do that. So you know we’ve had a couple few of those. That was the one where we had to just we just threw it away. I mean just the startler. So you know what in the world we live in. I mean there’s so much that’s crazy. But luckily our motto is Thomas the train we want to grow. Slow and steady every quarter we we do not want hyper
aggressive growth will take it. But that’s what you’re searching for. Yeah. This is not the plan because when you’re doing what’s called a digital footprint again we have an annual event it’s in ink and Forbes recognized can’t miss must attend event annually and we go and we teach.
How do we build and how do we buy revenue generating sites and we do it for the sole intent purpose. If we can teach the world how to do this they’ll end up making more money when they get a sizable amount of money they’ll get tired of doing the work. They’ll just raise a check and let us do it. You know that’s our M.O. it works really well. And you know but we we definitely share some some very comical stories like the one I just shared. You know when we’re in person.
Right. And then but the downside protection like if something like that were to happen today a partner gives you money you know and a site gets nuked for one reason or another that falls in line that’s your act of God clause right. Yep totally. So the worst that can happen to them really is will you will they just while you’re building them a new side or buying a new one I’m assuming you’ll do that with your money. Will they continue to get their minimum paid.
Well of course they don’t. The guy the gentleman that this happened to didn’t even know this happened. Nice Yes. So he says his 30 or whatever his minimum kept coming in and we told him six months later.
That’s great yeah. So I mean because that’s the part when I think I think when you set it on stage that that guarantee is probably like the you know one of the most convincing things I would imagine that a lot of allow a lot of people to work with you but it’s probably also one of the biggest red flags like wait a minute that sounds too good to be true. But all right but it’s time as I’m understanding it your insurance policy is the fact you got so many sides you’re so good at this. You don’t try to step on the gas too much. You’ve done this like that so that if one side or a handful of sites start to lose traction you’re profiting from enough of the others. Your company banks will try to bring that up
and make things right.
And it won’t go into detail. Yeah. In understand this the that these stories I’m doing were a couple a few years ago prior to the Panda 4.0. We have no juicy stories in the last couple of few years. So that the world of the web has come down tremendously. So it’s not that this is never going to happen again. Of course anything could happen. But the reality is we’re not too big to fail you know we’re not an Enron situation. But if there was a challenge we do have the ability to make some quick ads put them on a bunch of other sites expose that Web site you
know in front of a very large mass of people and probably lift that up if we had to. We have never had to do that right. No but it is definitely a you know a comfort. And you just to just to show you how sensitive we are to the too good to be true piece which is our number one you know most common thing. We are our spokesperson nationally is still on our website today’s Professor Hans von puppet. I see that it’s awesome. The very first thing out of his mouth both on the national TV and a radio commercial and the video is do you want to hear something that’s absolutely too good
to be true. And then he goes through it for a minute. At the end he says and it sounds too good to be true but it’s true. So it’s. But you know we definitely don’t take like that you know people are giving up you know their hard earned money to put an asset in our hands to manage especially when something that like with real estate people understand real estate.
Most people well everybody’s going to like live in a house or apartment or bought one in their lives and they kind of get it. But with digital properties like this there’s a lot of folks who are not as astute like well I don’t really understand this so I imagine sometimes dealing with that just the the not the other getting people up to speed on what this is especially if they’re not digitally savvy I guess you can say Yeah and you know in the last year and a half two years kind of played with that meaning the last year especially was our slowest year in.
New site starts. However it was our biggest year. You know we’re we’re we’re an eight figure company we grew substantially this year. We’re a three time Inc 5000 company which we’re a mature company. You know those all came in the last four years. Usually a company that hits the 5000 list use of their first year tax return. Exactly where we used our 17th year wow. So you know we were pretty much referral driven. We don’t do much of anything actually outside of our annual events. You know getting people together and people asking questions we don’t even do a commercial at our events for what we do it’s it’s kind of crazy.
But yes or because of the you know people know real estate but they don’t really know what we do. RATH 860 sites with a goal of a thousand. We have we have really slowed down the new site pardoner acquisition because 71 percent of our site partners do another one in under a year.
So you don’t have to go out and we don’t you don’t have to be a lot of new business. Yeah. What about OK. This might be in the contract right. Can a side on or a partner.
Can they fire you they can’t fire us but they can sell their site at any time. Gotcha. And cancel the contract but we have first right of refusal to cancel it your brother for 10 bucks.
Gotcha. Nice. OK cool. I like that. The you have on your Web site on income store how it works or you on your product line. You talk about three different types of products there’s the totally hands off. There’s kind of the combo hands off hands on. And then there’s the what you call the hybrid triple which you mentioned in the video. This is what you’re like really the most excited about or whatever you care to can I talk about a the the really the differences in the products the popularity of them like is there you know what for and for the right people.
There’s no there’s no wonder product again. The products were built because people today have a completely different needs. You take someone that’s comfortable in life. They might even want to do something for their wife or their daughter. You know they may just want to go to the first one which is just hey let’s buy a revenue generating site and grow it steadily. But people today it’s just it’s funny it’s different than even a couple of years ago. They want more from us. They want leads. They’re very in tune to reputation management reputation prevention credibility in the marketplace so the hybrid triple is
simply in in English. We build a site based on their passion. So if somebody is really passionate about sports or skin care whatever it doesn’t it does not matter the industry we go in.
So we’re going to build something that’s called an authority site modeled exactly after web M.D. our team of writers is going to write every piece of content they’re going to kind of give us some input monthly on a regular basis and steer the ship a little bit. But we’re going to do the physical writing right. And then in the first 12 weeks we’re going to get a quick assessment to what we built from Google and social and then we’re going to go out to a company where you say OK build us a revenue generating Web site. And the exact same keywords this stanza but we want you to do it through the eyes of say 1 2 or 3 affiliate products. We want to say
making money physically in a couple of weeks. We want it moving multiple products or generating leads or this or that. And then we then do it exactly the same thing again eight to 10 weeks later. Now we have three different Web sites all in the same keyword vein trying to dominate the same space but all built by different companies and we end up buying those other two from those other companies and then we cross market. The three of them together and the only way to best explain it if somebody wants deeper info is study the Nasdaq company interactive Corp. IAC II and you’ll find that Barry Diller from Paramount Pictures raised a billion dollars
went out and bought Match.com Expedia College Humor and for other household name Web sites and then he ran out of money. So the only thing he could do was cross Murcutt those seven sites together. He began that five years ago. And if you look at the stock on the Nasdaq it’s one of the fastest growing stocks in the last five years. And he had no money to do it. So we are doing that with the hybrid triple we’re taking three sites in the same exact vein same demographic audience. They’re built by three different companies. But you do that.
Why do you do the three different companies is that it has a very it up so that you don’t like templates.
No it has nothing to with a look it’s I want I want different vision that’s down down the throat of each site. Yeah. And you know like like what’s his name Einstein says the brain that got you into the jam cannot get you out of the jam. So when you take three different companies and you but you give them the key word you want to dominate these companies are incredibly you know filled with high creative people. So we have never given a company a key word silo and seen them come back with anything similar to something. So what you want to do is you want to then cross market that group of sites and mention the one site with the
other site and then mention that what you don’t do it linking them together. You do that with very specifically written content. You know like review content or this or that and you just you know you just keep people on their toes. And then all of a sudden you just have this mass audience down three different sites and everybody’s happy.
So that’s. So in that case you’re not going out and buying one like the hyper triple you’re not buying one that already exists necessarily you’re building from scratch but then you’re buying them from the people.
Exactly. Yes. So we’re basically funding them up front a little bit of seed money and build something in and 12 weeks up physically buying it.
I love and you probably get a great deal because it’s not like you know your dad who would agree.
Yes and No but I’m cutting in that guy that built it at a very high level on a portion of our half of the revenue. Right. For five years so it’s it’s actually still more than two times earnings right. Yeah. I don’t want to short them because I want to do with him for years to come. So the they win we win.
OK. And then so that’s your that’s your hybrid triple than the other ones. Like you said one of them is just this and will go out and buy a site. Let’s do it. What are they. I think I saw this.
But what is it really the minimum somebody needs to have to invest with.
You know we do we do we do property deal jackets between 50 grand and $5 million each. So if people put in more than a hundred and fifty will always entertain you know a multi-unit portfolio so they’ll get maybe two sites or three if they do 300 or more. It’s always three sites sometimes even up to five. OK but if somebody puts in 50 to 100000 They typically at one site you know probably it again it’s going to depend on their goals depending how fast they need revenue or leads or reputation fix. But with only one domain with 100 grand or less you get more musclebound that domain.
Yeah I gotcha. Excellent. Now do you tell me what your average What do you call them partners what are you what do you call your site partners.
Their web site partners of an effect is because their their assets and we’re not like a mutual fund company or anything like that I can actually talk averages or anything about another person’s asset.
Well I actually don’t want to talk about that I was more going for the demographics but I’ll say it first you on like site partners I guess. But you know what. So what’s the average demographic or psychographic of your site partner. I mean.
Oh there you go. Yeah I’ve got. We’ve got everything from from from single females in their late 20s. Believe it or not all the way to people in their early 80s.
But if I had to say the Avatar The avatar is in it sounds so loose and so general but it’s anybody that has just come to the realization they either have to make up lost time quickly or they want to just have a freaking boatload of fun generating revenue in the coolest way possible. And I mean that sincerely. So many people do this because it’s cool.
Right that’s true. How many of the how many of your site partners have a an advanced knowledge of digital marketing. Less than 1 percent. I would think so yeah.
Yeah. And I could also see. So like somebody like myself I do have an advanced knowledge of digital marketing and I do a lot of this stuff but I also see the value and the stuff that you guys do because my advanced knowledge is not in SEO and all of this other stuff that you’re doing right like the content based sites.
Mine is much more direct response sales and you know paid traffic to an offer. Right. Those are most of my expertise but I see the value in saying yeah listen there is a there is a time and a place for having much more passive dependable assets they can grow with time that you don’t need a whole lot of hands on et cetera.
Yeah. You know what we do with the people that are they want to be hands on. You know we get a lot of very similar questions and about a year ago well exactly a year ago I decided instead of answering these questions or coming out with it if a Q I launched a podcast called Todays growth growing business today and 80 percent of what is in those 150 episodes are the answers to the questions I get from our Sapeurs.
Nice. Yeah that’s fantastic. Do you get many people or have you really looked into this using self-directed IRAs to fund these.
Yeah well one third of what we do comes from self-directed IRAs.
I would think so. Do you do much education to your partners about that.
About. Because a lot of people dont even know that they have that option.
You know what. No we we do not a good job at that. No I mean we we we dont mention it much. Its funny we get approached just can I use it and you know so I think of the second largest self-directed IRA companies you know are using us Reinoso and trust Sun Trust horizon equity trust where weve done deals with all of them so were approved by those guys. We probably have been on our website. We probably should do some kind of a blanket today and use that.
You know if you’re if you’re interested in I think this is potentially a really cool introduction for you. I’ve got a friend named Greg Herlean and the Web site is GregHerlean.com. You can check them out.
So one of the things that he does like so self-directed IRAs is really the is really the place that he’s kind of staked his flag is one of the leading experts out there.
And one of the things he does is he works a lot in the real estate market but also beyond that because in for real estate investors using a self-directed IRA and by the way for my audience I kind of forget that they’re listening if you’re not familiar with what a self-directed IRA is it means that a traditional IRA is you know you can buy stocks and bonds and anything you can typically buy from a stock broker. However if you want to put real estate gold business assets partnerships et into your IRA you can’t go to Charles Schwab or Fidelity or Merrill Lynch and do that. One of the main reasons is they can’t make any money because it’s not regulated by the
FCC if they do that. However there are companies that you can use for instance I use a company called Kingdom trust dot com. Right. I believe Kentucky and I use them. They hold my IRA assets in which case I typically put that in private real estate loans to other rehabbers and people so I can make a good return on my money there. So a self-directed IRA from our audience once more is just your ability to invest in alternative assets including businesses without going through the typical channels. So now that I’m kind of back because you understand what I’m talking about Greg one of the things that he does
is he helps people really understand you look you can use self-directed IRAs for so many things. Right like that’s a telling the populace what else. You know just educating them on the potential but he also works with business owners showing them listen if you want to raise money out there. There’s a lot of different ways to raise money but there’s so much money sitting idly in IRAs a lot of times in cash and people just don’t know. So he shows business owners how to go out and kind of tap into that huge amount of cash that’s sitting idly on the sidelines looking for something but they’re scared to death of the stock market. So if you’re interested I’ll make a personal introduction and
you guys can kind of chat off line but I think you’d probably be really intrigued by what you’ve got going on here as well.
And he even may know some people with assets.
I love the e-mail and read it an e-mail would be great. Yeah I love making connections that could potentially turn into something cool. What else do I have to ask you you know is there a.
Is there a particular nut that you’re trying to crack in your business right now. And by that I mean is there a you know whether it’s a strategy or trying to figure out a resource you’re trying to find a person you’re trying to hire or fire or a connection you’re trying to make is there anything out there that not that you like. We’re looking to solve this right now.
Well I’ll just do a blanket statement.
We are always looking for great talent. We’re up to 90 plus people. We’re in multiple countries where our employees sit.
So anybody that you know has a really good knowledge of Amazon Facebook e-commerce web design anything to do with internet marketing. I would definitely send us a resume. I think we hired 24 people this year full time so we’re we’re definitely growing. We we we need another 10 to 12 key people like yesterday. So that’s probably what I’m trying to crack is you know Jim Jim Collins Good to Great. You cannot get great people on your bus fast enough and then just over time you’ll
eventually put them in the right seat. So we hire talent first position second.
Nice. And this talent can be virtual correct. That’s not a.
Definitely. Where you work from anywhere.
So this has been really really cool and I’m glad that we got a chance to do this because as I said Here I was I got it at a very high level of what you do. And yet I actually not at a high level at a very detailed level. And like a lot of people I kind of wanted to dig a little bit more and say OK is this is this something. You know it sounds extremely legit. Let’s let’s find out. Man you know I’m definitely convinced that it is. I think you’ve got a really cool business model as well.
And oh another question I’ve written this down before because I was going to wrap up here in a second but have you ever even looked into equity crowdfunding as bought on business. Do you know much about that or if you looked at it.
Yeah we’ve looked at Reggae Regg the crowd tours.
I mean we the reason we don’t it’s really simple.
I would much rather own 50 percent read share of 1000 sites than 100 percent of 100 because what we’re going for is is mass. We’re doing a body of sites. I’m not going for revenue. So if I was just going for revenue and fun I would I would do a hundred sites myself. But I’m trying to quite frankly help hundreds of people solidify their personal finances have something truly they can give to their kids making money today is a nightmare.
I mean he is in keeping money I think is a much bigger challenge than making money. So I think our country does a crap job. No they do worse than a crap job of educating our kids on what the difference is between earning interest and spending. It is true. I mean we truly we we we have a site called wealth maverick and we built a tool inside it. So here’s a good public service announcement. This is already at with Sharon Lechter in the White House. There is a tool inside of wealth maverick. I think you click on life calculator. We we keep We’ve created this killer app which is
the story of two twin brothers at 18 years old. We got with you I think it was U.S. banker Chase Bank in 2012. Instead what does the average male adult spend money on.
Between 18 and 72 and they gave us their books and they said OK buy a car here a used car here at this present a real new car here at this present sometimes a boat house. I mean we have everything the average person buys right now by the way.
Keep going. Yeah. And the interest rate. Now watch this. We did a story of one brother. He spends interest according to the average U.S. American. But the other brother is a little weird. He lives like my family we have the last name Cortright. There’s never been a male Cortright have a W2 job in 100 years. Everybody owns a business like this. We were drilled. You pay your house off in for years you’re you run privately owned companies debt free and that’s where we are. So we were freaks of nature growing up with parents that said credit cards are evil no debt and but we’re not normal. So the guy on
the right is like a member of our family day. And what he does is he finds out how much his brother is spending in interest spending. And then he saves it and then we give these kids because this was built for kids a dial and they can change the interest they’re going to earn the same dollar amount is what their brother is spending on the left and then they can earn 2 percent or 6 or 10. And then when you go to the bottom and you look at the results when you change it from say two to 6 percent and you go to the bottom of the page and you’re going to quickly realize Holy cow the difference of 2 percent compounded versus even four or six or eight
It is extraordinary.
By the way this is awesome so for anybody listening I’ll put a link to this in the show notes but it’s on wealth maverick dot com forward slash life dash calculation. This is cool. I like this. I like this a lot this time.
So it’s it’s all Cousin Yeah. That’s a fun. That’s a fun tool that we’re trying to get. Sharon Lechter she’s in the White House for she’s pushing a bill right now to get financial literacy as a general and not optional subject so important I got to be a father who was a financial adviser and really taught me a lot of the stuff I take for granted.
What I know vs what a lot of the people that I grew up with just had no clue with and home economic a little home economics class. It mixes in budgeting and how to balance a checkbook without a bank. Cake is not enough education.
Yes. So I’m we are we we’re in the business of getting people legitimately free from the bondage of debt in finances and you know it’s it sounds so cliche but the reality is you know who out there is really helping. You know there’s a lot of great people out there and there’s a lot of things you can do to make some part time income but we took a look and took a step back after 17 years of General Growth consulting and three thousand thirty one hundred regular clients. There was no residual benefit. We were just making money. Then we step back and said What can we do that is definitely a money maker but forces
people to build equity in something. And so you know this is this is a you know what do we in our 24th year so it’s a pretty well thought out. Many times tried over all that came out right but you know we keep this from so many angles and you know we get we we still making a lot of mistakes but it’s finally starting to work.
I love it. Well Ken thank you so much for your time here on the show today and gone over a lot of this stuff. I know it’s probably very enlightening to a lot of the people who are listening to this.
And you know I encourage everybody if you want more information Ken has got a ton of videos and information on income’s toward dot com you can tell he didn’t just didn’t just spring up and answer a lot of these questions before he goes into explaining it if he hasn’t done a good enough job now. And once more if I mean think about this if this is the least bit interesting to you and you want to fall off of canning.
Look at this. Take a look. Do you have an IRA right now. Do you have anything that is you know that money that’s potentially in the stock market or somewhere else. There are ways that you can get a self-directed IRA I personally use Kingdom trust dot com I compensated for mentioning them. And you can explore ways to diversify your assets. I mentioned this early on when we were talking one of the things I actually like about this is that I’m very pessimistic about the overall stock market and economy right now. I mean it’s been eight years since a massive recession. Things are highly overpriced and the stock
market I don’t have any of my assets currently in the stock market. And and I like that this is somewhat insulated or hot or completely uncorrelated to what’s going on in the general market typically because people are still going to be Googling Web sites and information and going there and seeing ads and and clicking ads and whatnot. So this seems to be a really good alternative asset to insulate yourself against market risk. Would you agree.
You know what. We’ll put it this way since 2012.
Ford Nissan Sony and one other company have taken 25 to 35 percent of what used to be radio TV and newspaper advertising budgets.
And these are in the billions and it’s now only online. Yeah. So what they’re realizing is in the traditional television world you cannot track the dollar from a TV commercial to a sale. And on the Internet they can track a funny commercial. I mean a funny video to. You know it just literally drops a seed. But then they do a retargeting campaign and there’s companies today that are earning over a billion dollars of revenue a year just tracking pixels. Yeah for people that start on mobile and then on a desktop it’s amazing. So the reality
is the world is craving information and the highest. We see this the most expensive product ever sold is information the greatest industry we could tell our kids to go into is information. Everything revolves and goes up and down on information it’s either the movement of the information the creation of the information the storage of the information everything flies with information. So it’s not going anywhere. It will always be here at Google you know craps out. Somebody is going to step up and be the next Google. So people
need info to live in. And that’s the world we’re playing.
Absolutely. Well I love it. Kansas has been fantastic. I look forward to staying in touch with you finding out more about it.
And you know I encourage everybody to go check out income’s or dot com check out the podcast. What’s the name of the podcast again.
The two main tools we have is today’s growth growing business today. That’s the podcast that’s the business related kind of growth nugget podcast. It’s all centered around my next book which I don’t even have a title for but it’s basically 19 growth techniques nobody’s ever heard of but then the other is that we use big time to teach people is the digital footprint of that which can be found at digital footprint dot net.
Cool. Write that down. Those will all be in the show notes to everybody else.
Thank you so much for listening.