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Is The E5 CAMP Marketing Method from Todd Brown A Better Way To Market?


Online marketing is a critical part of any product or service these days because it is the most far reaching advertisement method. Todd Brown, the creator of the E5 CAMP Method of marketing and one of the smartest marketers, tells us more about his marketing method along with what’s new in this world. Running his marketing camp where you can train to be an A-list marketer, Todd shares how you can structure a compelling marketing message that creates a demand and leads prospects to want the product before the product is even introduced. Discover a better marketing method with Todd’s fresh insights in this episode.

Some Topics We Discussed Include:
  • The E5 CAMP Method
  • Engaging prospects and presenting a marketing message
  • Why it's better to use strategy rather than tactics
  • Eugene Schwartz's levels of market sophistication
  • Why you should focus on your area of strength for your marketing method
  • Components to engineering an E5 Campaign
  • How to differentiate your marketing

To learn more about Todd and the E5 CAMP Method, visit

About The Guest: Todd Brown

BWB Todd | Better Marketing MethodTodd Brown is the expert other experts go to when they need help with their own business.

With clients in over 33 different countries, operating in over 65 different mass and niche markets, it’s been said that Todd has helped his students engineer more six and seven-figure funnels than any other expert online today.

His list of coaching students, consulting clients, and subscribers reads like a Who’s Who of A-List Entrepreneurs.

His Agency has created the promotions behind some of the biggest direct response marketers and companies online today.

And, entrepreneurs fly-in to West Palm Beach, Florida — from all around the globe — for a single day of guidance with Todd to learn his renowned E5 Method.

Is The E5 CAMP Marketing Method from Todd Brown A Better Way To Market?

I am joined here with my friend Todd Brown.

Hey, everybody.

I've known you for years. You were one of the early guests on my show. You are still in the top five most downloaded episodes. It was that epic and I still get emails going, “That was an amazing show.”

We talked about a lot of cool stuff. The show was getting going too. Even with more audiences, they come back and find you.

Todd is one of the smartest marketers you’ll ever meet. I’m not one of the guys saying that he’s been around this block for a very long time. Todd, how long have you been doing online marketing for?

About fifteen years.

That’s longer than me. I’ve been at this for about eight or nine years at the moment. On the last episode, we talked about Eugene Schwartz’ five levels of market sophistication. I think of you as a badass MFer: Marketing Funneler.

I got an invite that I unfortunately could not attend to this E5 CAMP Masterclass live event with some of the most brilliant marketers in Florida. I know from several people that got back and talked about what they learned there.

Some of the new methods of creating a marketing funnel and a sales system to educate and encourage your prospects to buy without being overtly salesy and hypey, etc. and how revolutionary it was.

I want to go into that a little bit and for anybody else who likes what we’re talking about and gets this resonate, Todd has a couple of videos coming up real soon.

At any point, you can simply go check out and you can see the videos of this masterclass that Todd’s starting to release and starting to explain what you can learn here. What is new in the world of marketing? What is this new E5 CAMP methodology? Give us some overview.

The E5 CAMP method is a process for putting together a customer generating marketing campaign. A campaign that brings you predictable steady new customer sales, day in and day out.

Regardless of your product, price point and how crowded or saturated the marketplace is. At the core, even though it’s insanely powerful, it’s so simple.

It’s about putting together a simple education-based marketing message that creates demand like buying demand, excitement, hope for your product or service before you even talk about your product or service. It’s truly at its core marketing, not selling.

Selling is all about the product, price point, features and benefits. It’s what you do when you’re talking to a prospect that already has an interest in your type of product. They want to know what’s better about your product compared to all the others.

Marketing is what you do with the masses of prospects that maybe don’t even know about you, don’t know about your product or unsure of what they need, unsure of the different solutions out there. Its purpose, aim and objective is to make selling unnecessary.

As Peter Drucker said, “Superfluous.” It’s all about how do you get attention in a crowded market place? How do you stand out, create that engagement?

Even if you’re at a crowded marketplace, you get your ads clicked, your emails opened, your opting pages get the leads.

How do you engage prospects so that they’re hooked all the way through your marketing? How do you present a marketing message without being sleazy, without being scammy, without being hypey, without having to resort to all the obnoxious sales tricks?

How do you lead them to truly want your product, have hope in your product, have excitement in your product before you ever even make your offer?

That’s a huge undertaking. It’s something that a lot of people don’t appreciate, how much goes into marketing and how much goes into doing it right.

In a world of info products and marketing, education, etc., there are so many tricks and tactics and hype filled BS that maybe works one day and doesn’t work the next.

One of the things I’ve always loved about you is you always approach this like a real scholar of the craft. It’s something that works evergreen and always because it has much more to do with the psychology of the marketplace and how to respect the customer or the prospect and what they want.

Like you said, educating them and creating that desire, but doing so in a way that they feel good about the purchase and they feel like, “I made an educated and informed decision.” At the same time, I’m excited about what this person wants to do.

You hit on something that’s a valuable lesson for everybody and that is the difference between strategies and tactics. Tactics are usually the sexiest.

BWB Todd | Better Marketing Method

Better Marketing Method: Become a student of strategy, not a student of tactics, because strategy does not change but tactics come in and out of fashion.


The strategies, persuasion and influence. Things like commitment and consistency, reciprocity, social proof, authority, liking. Typical Robert Chaldini stuff. Those are strategies.

The strategy of tapping into the Law of Reciprocity, the strategy of providing social proof. Those things are evergreen. They work because of how we are wired as human beings.

Tactics are the way that you execute on those strategies. Tactics are the things that you do in your campaign to provide social proof, to tap into reciprocity.

Those are the things that are easy. They’re easy to do, easy to model, easy to find. It’s more compelling to think that if I add a certain plug into my funnel, that’s the answer. My results are all going to come about from that.

I say it all the time. If there was a push button solution, I would not be on this Facebook Live right now. I would be pushing the button. That’s the truth.

The beautiful thing is that tactics change. Tactics evolve as markets becomes more sophisticated, as technology changes. All of your viewers, all of your listeners, you want to become a student of strategy, not a student of tactics.

First and foremost, when you look at another campaign that’s working, that’s effective, that’s compelling to you, you want to ask yourself, “Why are they saying this? Why are they saying it here?” rather than simply copying what it is that they’re doing.

Dive into the strategy behind why they’re doing what they’re doing, why they’re saying what they’re saying, why they have the widget there, what is the strategy. Become a student of that.

That’s also why with all the marketing books out there, the only marketing books that I read are the ones that are typically decades old. The classic Breakthrough Advertising. Robert Collier’s Letter Book. Vic Schwab, John Caples.

Those are based on strategy and those don’t change because human beings are human beings. I don’t read tactical books because tactics come in and out of fashion. I believe that the more your listeners and viewers understand strategy and become students of strategy, the better they will be at marketing.

Realistically, I work a lot as a consultant and I know you work with probably some clients. It’s the strategy that’s the most valuable aspect of it. It’s a lot easier to hire somebody to do the tactics and it’s a lot harder to understand the strategy behind it, how it all fits together and how it underpins.

You have to, in a lot of ways, become somewhat a jack of all trades because you have to understand all of the various aspects about the marketing message, the channel, the distribution, etc.

What you’re hitting on is so valuable and it’s rarely talked about. The other thing to think about and consider is that when you are a student of tactics, you have to be in information gathering mode because tactics are constantly changing.

What you know now about Facebook advertising, for example, and the different tactical ways of implementing that is going to be different in six, eight months.

That means that you constantly have to be learning to keep up with changes. What happens is overtime, your marketing chops, tactically never evolve because you’re constantly having to learn and relearn things.

When you’re a student of strategy, strategy which is evergreen, your marketing chops improve overtime because those things that you learn, as you learn them, as you master them, they don’t change. They don’t go out of fashion, so your marketing chops get better and better.

That’s how you become a better marketer overtime. By focusing on strategy, so that you’re building on top of stuff that’s not going out of fashion. That’s one thing.

You mentioned that there are so many different plugins, different widgets, different page builders. The reality is that it’s never been easier for marketers to publish pages, to create funnels.

There’s never been more information out there about creating funnels, setting up opting pages, setting up upsells, downsells, setting up VSL’s. Yet we still see so many marketers struggling to generate sales and consistent sales and grow their business.

I truly believe my thesis, if you will, that it’s because of two reasons. One is because I believe that a lot of marketers have unfortunately been sold on this idea that the key to having a successful marketing campaign is to have the right pages, the right model.

It’s having an opting page with the right format and layout, right VSL layout, right order form with a bump offer and upsell. While those things are important. Those things are not what make or break a marketing campaign. Those are not the things that determine whether you generate sales or not.

That’s why there are people that are struggling to generate sales using every different type of funnel model out there. Low-price, high-price, mid-tier, evergreen webinar, live webinar, multipart video sequences, trip wires, free plus shipping.

There are people struggling regardless of the model and even when they switch models. That’s because of two things. One, I believe that they grossly underestimate the task at hand.

They’ve been led to believe that it’s easy to lead a prospect to whip out their wallet and buy. That it’s easy to build that trust to motivate them enough to get to see why they should want your product or service.

Two, I believe that it’s because they’ve never been taught the core of how to structure a compelling marketing message that creates that demand, that leads prospects to want the product before the product is ever even introduced.

Choose the marketing model that is more based on your area of strength. Click To Tweet

Let’s dive into some specifics. Let’s talk about some of the methodology. Let’s talk about some of the things that you’ve seen that aren’t working as much anymore if there’s any specifics there. I’d love to get into this E5 CAMP method. Why is it called E5? What are some of the key components?

Let me preface for the audience, I’ve watched the first two videos. Especially the second one. You talked about the unique mechanism.

We talked about Eugene Schwartz earlier and how there are five levels of market sophistication. In the very beginning, you make claim as a marketer. Then somebody else comes along and makes a bigger claim that it works better, faster, stronger.

Somebody introduces a mechanism in which to make it work. For instance, weight loss pills. The first time you take a pill, “This pill makes you lose weight.”

That’s all you needed to say. This has Garcinia cambogia, that’s the mechanism that makes it work. Then somebody comes out with a stronger mechanism, and on and on.

In part two of the video, you talk about this unique mechanism and I’d love for you to expound on that a little bit more. I’ve given some people the foundation and anybody who’s got a good marketing knowledge will understand that.

Let’s talk about the unique mechanism in a little more detail. Not only what it is, maybe if you add some examples of some companies that are doing it right.

I love this piece of the E5 CAMP method. This is one of the most valuable things that I could honestly share with anybody, any marketer.

First and foremost, let’s take a step back for one second and address something that you shared because I want to point out a mistake that marketers make sometimes.

You talked about how early on when people weren’t exposed to the quantity of marketing messages and advertisements, claims and what not they are now.

When a company came out with a new product and they were able to make a promise of transformation, of result, of change that the prospect would experience, all they had to do was make that promise. That’s all they had to say because nobody else had ever made that promise to prospects.

For prospects, it was something new and different. It was unique and it got their attention and created the engagement because they wanted to know how. They wanted to know what’s this pill that I can take to lose weight.

Then we see that evolution into the second stage where you see folks that are blowing up the claim. They’re enlarging the claim. “Take this pill and you’ll lose ten pounds. Take this pill and you’ll lose seventeen pounds. Take this pill and you’ll lose 32 inches.”

What happens is a lot of marketers even still now try to compete, to stand out in that crowded marketplace by screaming a louder promise, enlarging the claim even more.

First and foremost, even the claim becomes not believable anymore. It’s not credible, not truthful or the market becomes deaf to it because they see so many people making these enlarged claims.

That’s when Eugene Schwartz talked about this idea of introducing the unique mechanism behind your product. The mechanism behind your product Is how your product works.

How does your product deliver the promise? How does it deliver the result? What is it about your product or service that fulfills the promise? How does it strip off the weight?

How does it grow the big lush green lawn? How does it alleviate your pain? How does it grow hair? How does it deliver on the primary promise of your product?

The thing is that every product or service can have a unique mechanism because there are three ways to create a unique mechanism to identify unique mechanism. The truth is that two of the three ways is pure marketing invention.

The first way, we call it the intrinsic mechanism. The intrinsic mechanism is when you truly have a unique mechanism.

You have a unique algorithm in your software. You use a unique body work method in your massage practice. You have a unique recipe behind your birthday cakes. You truly have a unique element.

Then there’s what I would refer to as the unspoken mechanism. The unspoken mechanism is when your product or service delivers the result not with something that’s necessarily unique to just your product.

It may be found in other products or services, but no other competitors are talking about it. No other competitors are bringing it to the market.

That allows you to name that mechanism and bring it to the market. When you bring it to the market, even though it’s not unique amongst competing products and services, it’s unique in the mind of prospect. That’s the second method.

The third method is all about giving a title to your method or process or system. If you have an information product for example and you teach a five-step program.

BWB Todd | Better Marketing Method

Better Marketing Method: In every single campaign, there is always a unique mechanism at the core of it.


Rather than saying I have five steps to Facebook advertising, it’s naming that five-step, giving a title to that framework. We see that all the time with Tripwire, which is a low-priced offer. We see that all over the place.

Perhaps E5 is a unique method.

Absolutely, the E5 is the overarching unique mechanism. It's not, “Here's how to produce a better marketing campaign. These are the five steps to designing, launching, testing and scaling a marketing campaign.” It's a unique framework. It has a title.

The thing that I want everybody to understand here is that when you have a unique mechanism, you name a unique mechanism in your product or service.

First and foremost, this is the twist on Eugene Schwartz. We can call this Eugene Schwartz 2.0. It allows you to create a marketing campaign about the unique mechanism and not about the product or service.

It allows you to put together an education-based marketing message that shows your prospects why the unique mechanism is the best solution for their needs and wants right now and why and how it's superior to the common mechanisms found in other products and services.

It allows you to put together an education-based marketing message. A message that delivers value, that enlightens your prospects, that builds goodwill, leaves you as an authority, that teaches and opens your prospect’s mind to why they want the unique mechanism.

When you start to understand that, the beauty is it sets up the sale for your product or service because by the end of your marketing message, they want your unique mechanism. Because you've educated them, they want it and the only place it can be found is in your product or service.

Absolutely, do you know Mike? Do you see his question on the screen?

Being the isle instead of being on the isle. What does he mean by that?

I don't know.

He's right, it's interesting. What he's saying is extremely profound. If I understand him correctly, it's all roads lead to you. At the end, you've just excited them. You've given them hope that they can finally experience the results they've been after.

You're teaching them about something new and different. Something they haven't tried before, haven't been exposed to before, haven't been offered before. You've opened their eyes, their minds and their hearts to why it is perfect for them.

You're not talking about your product. The unique mechanism and your product are two different things. Your product delivers the unique mechanism.

Just like in my case, the unique mechanism is the E5 CAMP message. The product is the E5 CAMP Masterclass. The only way to learn the E5 CAMP message, the only way to get it and use it is to go through the E5 CAMP Masterclass.

You look at our buddy, Ryan Levesque. He’s one of the best. I consider him a brother from another mother and one of the sharpest marketers out there and a phenomenal entrepreneur.

When he talks in his marketing, he's talking about the ASK Method. A process of questioning, of identifying segments within your market. One of the savviest things that any direct response marketer can do is understand the segments that your dealing with.

He's not simply talking about surveys. He's not simply talking about quizzes which you could go and learn anywhere. He's talking about his unique mechanism, unique framework.

The product is the ASK Method Masterclass. By the end of his marketing message, you're like, “I need to learn this ASK Method. I need to learn how to use this so that I know the segments I'm dealing with, I know these buckets and I understand who I'm talking to.”

The only place you can learn the ASK Method is the ASK Method Masterclass. He has educated, opened their minds to why they want the ASK Method. They want it, then he says, “The beauty is here. I put together an unbelievable, no brainer offer for you to get it with this product.”

You mentioned in one of the videos you did, you talked a little bit of the Beachbody P90X and how they were floundering. Their infomercials bomb until their unique method or mechanism was muscle confusion. All of a sudden, now they're not selling P90X. They’re selling muscle confusion.

We're the only ones who know how to do that because we've created it.” If you want to utilize muscle confusion to get the results, you have to buy P90X in order to get that.

It's so insanely beautiful when you get it. The product is P90X, DVDs and a home workout system. The unique mechanism, the piece of their product, of their program that delivers the results is this muscle confusion.

Their methodology of doing exercise taps into this whole idea of muscle confusion. They explain and show how the common methods, the common mechanisms lead to the plateau effect where your body adopts and it no longer responds.

What you need to continue to build muscle, to continue to keep your metabolism turning, continue to burn fat is you need to tap into muscle confusion. That's what P90X delivers.

No one would want to listen to you if you are saying the same thing as others are saying. Click To Tweet

By the end of that, you get the fact that maybe, “I get it, maybe the program I've been following isn't working because I'm reaching the plateau effect. Maybe that's why all those exercise programs didn't work. Maybe that's what I've been missing.”

They get hope. They have excitement. In the New York Times, they talked about how their early infomercials didn't have a unique mechanism. Their early infomercials bombed. They tried fourteen different variations until they came upon muscle confusion.

Today, they're $1 billion or some crazy number with 23 million customers. The beauty is that Tony Horton, the man behind P90X, says, “We came up with the name muscle confusion.” That was the name they came up with. That was the name that they felt best described their unique mechanism.

They didn't wait for a scientific study. They named it and it sold to millions and millions of customers. That's the power of having the right unique mechanism at the core of your marketing message.

In the launch of the E5 CAMP, how are you drinking your own Kool-Aid? How are you utilizing the methodology that you teach in order to promote your Masterclass?

We dissected the last five campaigns that we create. You will find that in every single campaign, there is always a unique mechanism at the core of it.

The bulk of the marketing campaign is education about the unique mechanism. In the case of the E5 CAMP Masterclass launch, what you'll find is the bulk of the first three videos, and this is a rough rule of thumb.

Every marketing campaign that I create is typically 75% marketing, 25% selling. When I say selling, it's the presentation of the offer, an over-the-top, superior, no brainer offer. 75% is about the unique mechanism, about how and why it is exactly what the prospect needs.

In the case of this series, elaborating on things that we're talking about now, I'm demonstrating why you need a unique mechanism like in there.

Identifying the right unique mechanism and giving it the right name for your product or service is one of the engineering steps of the E5 campaign. By talking about it and teaching about it inside this launch series, I am teaching about why the unique mechanism work.

The E5 CAMP method is the overarching framework that in and of itself is a unique mechanism. It's made up of several different steps that in and of themselves are unique mechanisms like the idea of building unique mechanism into your campaigns.

Can you explain what E5 and CAMP mean?

CAMP stands for Customer Acquisition Marketing Protocol. It's the process that I use to create all of our frontend, our new customer acquisition campaigns. A frontend campaign is a marketing campaign designed to turn prospects into new customers, new clients, new buyers.

A backend campaign is marketing that you do with existing clients and customers to continue to deliver value and build lifetime customer value. It's where your profit is in this business.

Creating those two campaigns require two different approaches. The most difficult part is creating the campaign for the front to turn a prospect into a buyer.

The process that I use is a five-stage process. E5, there are five Es. The first stage is Examine. That's where we dig into three pieces. We dig into competitors. What are they saying? What are they presenting? What are their mechanisms? What are their promises?

We need to know what it is they're saying so that we're able to come up with a unique mechanism. If we don't know what competitors are doing and saying, then we could come up with a mechanism that's being repeated already in the market.

We examine the prospects to identify their feelings, wants, desires, emotions. We use what's called a web analysis of wants, emotions, beliefs. We identify what level on the prospect awareness they are. We go through all that.

Then we examine the product. We're looking into the product so we're able to find the unique mechanism.

We start with competitors. We know what they're already saying so we don't duplicate it. We dig into the product, so we find the unique mechanism and all of the benefits and what not. We look at prospects, so we know what it is they want, desire, etc.

The second stage is the big stage. That's Engineering. That's where we put together what we call an E5 campaign. For example, where one of the elements of an E5 campaign is the unique mechanism.

We go through the big marketing idea. We go through the lead, what you say in the first 300 to 850 words of your campaign.

Structuring your marketing argument and how you put together that education-based message. We go through what I call the structure or constructing of a SIN offer: superior, irresistible, no-brainer.

The third stage is Evaluate. That's where you test your new campaign to minimum viable funnel. It's a fast way of getting data to confirm that we got a profitable campaign without building out the full campaign, email follow sequence, upsells, downsells.

It's a way to reduce risk, time and cost to confirm that you've got a profitable campaign. The fourth stage, that's what we call Enhance. Enhance every campaign with three additional sequences. We go through the offer sequence.

BWB Todd | Better Marketing Method

Better Marketing Method: You could walk away with an evergreen marketing campaign that builds your business for months and months, if not a year plus.


We go through the addon sequence, like your upsells and downsells. We don't use upsells. We use a reverse add-on. You're enhancing the minimum viable funnel. You're turning the minimum viable funnel from the evaluate stage into a full-blown campaign.

The fifth stage, Expand. That's where you expand your reach. You expand your new customers. You expand your traffic channels. You expand your audience. You expand your budgets. That's how you’re able to scale your campaign like crazy. That's when you shift from marketing to scale.

This making money thing and convincing people to buy sounds like a lot of hard work. A lot of thought has to go into this. It's not just a push button, make money. For those of us, I'm proud to know that I study this stuff. It's my obsession. I know it's yours and it's one of the reasons that I feel strong about.

If the economy ever goes to crap, or when it does, if things go bad, the robots replacing most peoples' jobs, this is the kind of stuff that makes you irreplaceable and invaluable.

You understand human psychology, what causes people not only to act, but to act in their best interests and helps keep the wheels of the economy moving.

This is about teaching people how to fish rather than simply giving them the fish. When you learn this method and you have the ability to create a marketing message for almost any product at almost any price point in almost any marketplace, you have the ability to generate money at will.

I don't want to make it sound like it's some ATM push button. What I'm saying is that you have the ability to partner on a venture and grow a business. You have the ability to launch a new venture and grow it. You have the ability to promote a product and know that it's going to work.

Yes, it takes effort. I wish it didn't. The beauty is if you're committed to your dream of having your own business that gives you the income to live life on your own terms, then you should be excited by the idea of learning the skills, the method that can make that a reality.

I don't want to be the dead horse. I wish the push button stuff worked. It doesn't. I tried it and I spent a lot of money over the years on it. I wish it did, but it doesn't.

For folks, they should be okay with that. That doesn't mean you can't achieve your dream. It just means that it's not going to include a simple button. It's going to involve you learning a new method, a different way of marketing.

The beauty is with this type of approach, you can set up one campaign that becomes an evergreen campaign that can build your business for months and months.

I built the back of my company, of MFA, off of a single funnel for something like eighteen months. For eighteen months, I had one single new customer acquisition campaign that was generating new customers from cold traffic, day in and day out.

Was that webinar based?

No, that was video based. That was a multipart video sequence for a product that was $497.

Was kind of an evergreen launch style?

Yes, we gave folks the ability to at the end of video one, they can click a button to go to video two if they want. Folks had the ability to consume the whole thing in one sitting if they wanted.

Just for eighteen months, one single campaign. The beauty is this isn't about creating a campaign today then you got to create another funnel in a month or six weeks.

This is about if you're willing to put in 45 days, call it 60 days for arguments sake, you could walk away with an evergreen marketing campaign that builds your business for months and months, if not a year plus.

I am going through this with a client of mine. Here is one of the marketing campaigns that I’m working on generating for one of my clients.

The reason I bring it up is because there is potentially a unique mechanism here and I’m thinking about the best way to frame this. I’ll talk about who it is because somebody might like this.

In the real estate investment market, people have been buying flip houses for real estate. There are a lot of courses out there on how to do this in software, etc. This company is called

When you go to the webpage, this is not the funnel that I setup. This is the previous one and we’re improving this. That said, there are services company for real estate investors. They’re not teaching people how to do it, but if you’re a real estate flipper, they have what they call shared services.

They put together an entire marketing and back office operations company for investors. They come in, pay one fee, and handle about 80% of all of the grunt work and all of the stuff so that real estate investors simply have to field when he needs to make the call.

It’s unique in the entire marketplace because everybody else that I’ve found is either A. teaching people how to do it and just giving them tools, B. they are a mastermind kind of thing, C. they are like a virtual assistance agency.

You’ll hire our virtual assistants, then you can hire them and train them on your system to go do your things. The unique mechanism of shared services is, ‘We’ve built the mechanism, the machine. We’re letting you piggyback on top of this and we do all this stuff for you.”

Intrinsic mechanism is when you truly have a unique mechanism, when your products or service delivers results. Click To Tweet

Are there other companies in the market that are offering shared services?

Not that I’ve seen.

This is when things get super easy. If there’s nobody else offering shared services, then that is the unique mechanism. It’s about showing them how they can alleviate the problem that they’re having related to not having shared services.

All the things, all the problems, all the issues, all the pain points that they experience day in and day out that are there because they’re trying to do things without shared services, now you have the ability to say, “All those things can disappear because of shared services and here’s why.”

If other companies did have shared services, then what I would say to you is that we need to dive deeper into their approach to shared services to identify what do they do differently with shared services.

Is there a framework? Is there a methodology? Is there a process? Is there an algorithm behind their user interface that they use to connect people that makes it different?

This is valuable to those of you that get this. Right now, your client shared services, only one in the marketplace, that is their mechanism.

What’s going to happen? Odds are is that somebody else is going to come along in the future, maybe knock them off, come out with shared services.

At that point, we go deeper into the unique mechanism to find how are they doing it differently, then we position it against the common shared services.

Then we’re able to say, “This isn’t shared services. That’s available anywhere.” You then position it against the common form of what it is that they are doing.

You remember the days when people were spinning articles for SEO. If you came out at an article spinner at the time, you wouldn’t want to say here’s another spinner and here’s why we’re better.

Now you’re competing in this red ocean. This creates articles for you. This isn’t just an article spinner. If you want that, that’s everywhere. This is built on XYZ human technology brain function.

We would find it, we would identify it. The key is that for everybody to understand is that it’s there. You might think that your product or service doesn’t have anything unique.

Every product or service can have a unique mechanism, you just have to understand how to examine, how to look for it, how to identify it. It’s there.

That’s one of the reasons I was also excited to talk to you about this because I’m dealing with a unique mechanism here. It’s how to get people to understand how unique that is.

We’ve been doing this to a degree, but you phrase it well, which is show them how they can alleviate all the pain points of trying to do it by themselves with shared services. That’s the mechanism that makes it work.

It’s not even about the company. Sell shared services. There’s a degree you could probably go in and say, “I’m going to show you how to get together with some of the other real estate investors and create your own.” Because you’re not going to do it.

Imagine this. If you’re a real estate investor and you’re dealing with all these problems, these headaches, these frustrations, I’m going to share with you the one simple solution that is going to clear all that away for you.

Any real estate investor regardless of your experience, your knowledge, your capital can do this. What I’m talking about is called shared services. Let me walk you through how it works, how you can get into it, and everything it’ll do for you.

Then you’re educating them on shared services. Now you come across as an expert, an authority on alleviating these pain points for real estate investors. You become an authority on shared services. You become a valuable resource because you’re teaching them something new.

You lead them to a point where at the end of that marketing message, they say, “Brad is so freaking right. This sounds amazing. Thank you so much for opening my eyes to the value of shared services. Now I just need to figure out where do I go and get it.”

At which point you say, “That’s why we’ve spent X amount of dollars and X amount of time putting together shared services to get you everything you need.”

You didn’t talk about the program. You didn’t talk about the site. You didn’t talk about the user interface until you created the demand for your unique mechanism for the shared services. It’s so beautiful when you get it.

This is tactical. We’ve mentioned webinars, evergreen launch sequences and non-launch sequences. Have you seen anything, whether it’s with this or any other things that are working any better or worse?

BWB Todd | Better Marketing Method

Breakthrough Advertising

Let’s just say cold traffic. I’ve had a lot of success running cold traffic to webinars in the past and sometimes those bombed. Sometimes do the multi-video sequence series. Is there anything that you personally found is working better, worse these days?

I think the answer is no. For me personally, I like the multi-part video sequence. I’m not necessarily recommending that for everybody. I’m often asked this question, “What’s the best funnel model?” There is no best funnel model.

Certainly, there are models that are more appropriate for different price points. You’re not going to do a webinar to sell a Tripwire. You’re not going to do multi-part video sequence to sell a Tripwire.

Typically, the lower the price point, the shorter the campaign so you can use things like VSL or a long form cell or even a short form cell. The higher the price point, the longer the campaign and so it warrants things that give you that time.

In addition to what I shared, I think that your folks should choose the marketing model more based on their area of strength.

Some people are exceptional at webinars, I’m not. For whatever reason, it’s not a huge area of strength. For a guy like Russell Brunson, he’s phenomenal at that.

If you look at Ryan Deiss, he is self-professed at not being great at webinars. Look at Jeff Walker, he’s clearly videos. You look at Frank Kern, he’s great on camera. He also does webinars.

I think that it comes down to your area of strength. Are you a better writer? André Chaperon, Ben Settle, these guys create email sequences that convert because they’re strong in that department. They don’t do a whole lot of webinars, a whole lot of on camera video.

It comes down to your area of strength and operate and stick within your area of strength. If your area of strength is more video, if you like doing scripts rather than off the cuff, then you’re going to get better results by scripting your stuff.

I’ve had to answer this for some of my friends, clients, etc. just because somebody says a webinar is the way to do it. If you suck on webinars and if you suck on camera, video marketing is not for everybody.

It’s for people who are decent on video. It’s all subjective because you and I, we’re totally different. I may be terrible on video and you’re great. We read the exact same script the exact same way or people don’t like looking at my face.

That’s so valuable for everybody. It starts or stems from this. It’s not about the delivery channel. It’s not about this message will only work when it’s delivered on webinar. There’s nothing magical about the webinar.

There are nuances to having something scheduled live on Wednesday night at 8:00 PM Eastern Time. There are little nuances. Those nuances are not the thing that make or break it.

In other words, it’s like a crappy novel isn’t going to work if you turn it into a comic book. It’s a crappy story. Somebody else might deliver a message during a webinar and it works well. That doesn’t mean that’s the only channel of communication that’s going to work.

It’s why companies like Agora. I’m blasting fortunate to work with them, consult with them. So much of what I’ve learned came directly from Mark Ford, the man behind Agora. It’s why they’re able to roll out a campaign as a VSL.

They have it as a long form sales letter. They put it in the mail as a book log. They’re able to take the same method because it works. At the foundation of the message, it leads you to the conclusion that I need this thing before they offer you this thing. It’s unbelievable.

I was having a conversation with somebody else about how much effort they put into this amazing copy and long video sales letter and they’re selling a $50 a year subscription.

There’s such a tremendous lesson there. I was asked to give a presentation at one of their private conferences in Miami.

They asked me to talk about the top fifteen things that Agora isn’t doing that they should be doing. It was the easiest presentation I’ve ever had to put together.

If you looked at the plugins, the bells and whistles, all the whizbang things, the push button notifications, all these other stuffs that I was enamored with for years, they don’t do any of it.

If you look at some of their pages, some of their pages look antiquated, like they’re built with the old page builder. They’re ugly.

Yet, how have they been able to become the 800-pund gorilla. It’s because the big marketing idea, which is one of the other core components of the E5 CAMP method. That was the thing that Mark Ford shared with me.

When I asked Mark, “How was Agora able to grow so big?” I thought he was going to say to me was the size of their email list, their traffic budget. I even thought he was going to say their copy.

What he said was, “Todd, we realized early on that we are in the idea business. We’re in the business of developing compelling, startling, arresting, new, different, unique ideas that grab our prospects attention.

That is at the foundation of every marketing piece that we put out. We don’t write a single word of copy until we nail the idea.” What’s the idea that’s going to grab prospects and say, “What is that? I need to hear more about that.” Then they craft the marketing message that creates demand.

If you look at End of America, the most successful financial promotion ever in the history of the publishing industry which came out of Stansberry Research, brought them something like 750,000 new buyers.

When marketing, your big idea should be emotionally compelling and intellectually interesting. Click To Tweet

It was something like an hour and seventeen minutes VSL. I do not think they started the offer until after an hour. They did not mention the product, the offer, the newsletter until an hour in.

It goes to show you, because you get this question, “How long should my VSL be? How long should my sales page be?” The age-old wisdom is as long as it’s engaging, it doesn’t matter.

People don’t watch an hour-long VSL. People watch two-hour movies all the time but if something sucks, they’re going to turn off in two minutes. It starts with the quality of the idea. Agora is unbelievable at developing big ideas behind their marketing campaigns.

They brainstorm big ideas every single week. They’re phenomenal. They know how to take that big idea and create a marketing message that educates. Some of their sales letters, which are pages and pages long, are more valuable than some books on the topic.

They put so much time, research and effort to it. As a result, they make hundreds of millions of dollars. The big idea is part of the E5 CAMP methodology is there a big part there in the development of a big idea. There has to be, because I know that’s also one of your strengths.

There are five components to engineering an E5 campaign. Identifying the unique mechanism is the start of one of the pieces. One of the other big pieces is the big marketing idea. After Mark shared that with me, I went on a six-year journey studying and trying to master the big marketing idea.

I went in to something like $92 million plus marketing campaigns and I found a repeatable formula. I found something that was in every single one of them as it relates to the big idea.

At the higher level, the big idea speaks to both the head and the heart of your prospect. It’s both emotionally compelling and intellectually interesting.

We talked about the emotionally compelling part. An idea is emotionally compelling when it contains what I call a primary promise of transformation of result, of outcome.

When it promises your prospect exactly what they want which we identify during the examination stage of the E5 CAMP method, what makes it emotionally compelling is when that primary promise is fulfilled and delivered by the unique mechanism.

When they see that I can experience the result that I want with something new and different, that I’ve never tried before, that I’ve never been offered before, now they get excited. Now they get hope.

Let’s say for your client, we didn’t have the unique mechanism of shared services. All we said was, “Here’s how you could become a more successful real estate investor. Here’s how you can have less frustration in your real estate investing business.”

They’ve heard it before. They’ve seen it before. It causes that mental opt out where it’s like, “I’ve heard it, I’ve seen it, I’m out of here.” What gives them hope that maybe now, “I’ve never known about shared services, I’ve never tried it. Maybe that’s what I have been missing.”

It becomes emotionally compelling to them. You’ve got the other main piece, intellectually interesting. Meaning that there’s a part of the idea that gives them this feeling of discovery, gives them this a-ha moment and makes them feel like I want to learn more. Intellectually, they find it interesting.

Even if the promise and unique mechanism weren’t there, they would be interested in learning more about the thing, the idea.

That is how you’re able to get attention in a crowded marketplace without trying to scream a louder promise, a hyped up copy, an exaggerated claims in your headline or trying to wordsmith your headline.

It’s like a lot of marketers do, unfortunately. They start off with a crappy idea, a run-of-the-mill idea, like how to grow big tomatoes. They think that the answer is to try to wordsmith the headline.

Instead of, “How to grow big tomatoes?” it’s, “How to grow huge tomatoes? How to grow massive tomatoes? How to grow a huge garden with massive gorgeous red tomatoes?”

What they don’t realize is their wordsmithing the same garbage idea. The idea has not changed. They’re just fixing it with wordsmithing.

Lipstick on a pig, right?

Exactly. At the end of the day, it starts with using the formula for coming up with a big idea. When you have a big interesting idea, even weak copy will still grab attention.

If you’re not a great copywriter or if you don’t like to write or if you’re just getting started, it equips you with something that can still grab your prospect’s attention. It will still stand out and get clicked because it’s about the idea, not the hyped up copy or the formulaic headline. That’s not it.

Now you got me thinking what’s a big idea for how to grow tomatoes.

Let’s say we have a method of enriching the soil with different nutrients. Maybe we would look into those nutrients and where else are those nutrients used. Are those nutrients used in some cancer treatments?

Maybe then there’s the ability to say something like, “There’s a new discovery that over-the-counter cancer treatment is able to grow you the most gorgeous tomatoes you’ve ever seen.”

BWB Todd | Better Marketing Method

Better Marketing Method: Marketing is being able to lead somebody to want the product in a way that delivers value.


Now you go, “How does that work?” In other words, you’ve got something different other than how to grow big tomatoes because they’ve heard it.

I hate to use this word because it’s almost cliché, but it’s the only word that I can think of. You have to have differentiation. You have to have something different to say. You have to bring a different idea to your market.

Why should they pay attention to you if you’re saying the same thing that five other people in your marketplace are saying?

It goes back to what we’ve talked about earlier, that they think if my page is nicer, if I use a Tripwire funnel, if I have a yellow bar at the top, they’ll listen to me even though I’m saying the same thing.

They won’t. I wish they would. I wish it was that simple, but it’s not. They’ll ignore you. I know because I’ve been ignored more times than most marketers have attempted to create campaigns.

What I think is so important on this is that you’ve created a program which is a framework of how to become a better marketer, somebody who can move the needle and get the wheels cranking in a business. It’s not a here today, gone tomorrow concept.

Your concepts are used at the highest levels. In Agora and others, although the E5 CAMP method is unique to you, you didn’t just come up with this out of the blue.

Like you said, “I studied $90 million marketing campaigns.” You’ve been in the field, you’ve tested this, you’ve tried, you’ve failed, you’ve been ignored and you’ve been adored.

Instead of going and just created something new, you’ve discovered the framework and you’ve put it into a place where other people not have to study 90 different million-dollar sales campaign.

Whether it’s the right thing for me to say or not, I’m a dude from New Jersey who just so happened to fall in love with this type of marketing. Direct response marketing, I never liked selling, I wasn’t good at it. I was uncomfortable with it.

I liked the idea of marketing, being able to lead somebody to want the product in a way that delivers value. At the end, they love me rather than feel icky about me.

I’ve stood on the shoulders of giants. I learned the big marketing idea from Mark Ford. They developed it, I just studied it.

Then I came to learn and understand Eugene Schwartz’s unique mechanism. I said, “Things have changed in terms of we now have the ability to multiple contacts with the prospects. What would happen if instead of having a mechanism, we educated on the mechanism?”

I pulled pieces from people that are far smarter, far better than me, and I put it together. It worked like gangbusters, so now I’m just passing it on.

What is a nut that you’re trying to crack right now? The nut you’re trying to crack is to get this message in front of as many people that can use it as possible.

Is there anything, whether it’s a person you’re trying to meet, a resource you’re trying gather, and experience you’re looking to have that we can give back to you in terms of helping to make your life or business easier?

Ordinarily, I would probably say no, but I do have something. I would love to learn more from you because you’re connected to everybody about better systemization for a company that’s growing rapidly and constantly rolling out.

Systems and processes.

What’s a good way for a fast moving, fast evolving, fast growing company to develop and adhere to systems? That would be worth its weight in gold for me.

There are multiple angles here. This has been awesome. I can’t wait to go through the E5 CAMP Masterclass itself. Dive in because I’m always trying to hone my skills and I know that you’ve done all the hard work of putting it together. I just get to sit back and learn.

We’ll get you access, and you go through it and love it. It’s totally my pleasure. I love chatting with you because I love how passionate you are. I think we’re cut from the same cloth in terms of being passionate about what we do, so it’s always a pleasure. I love being on here with you.

I wish you all the luck with this class. I know it’s going to be well received. For everybody who’s reading this, thanks for checking us out.

I like to think that this isn’t a normal interview show. I like to say that I have the most selfish show on iTunes. I’m only asking questions to things that I want to know.

I’m bringing up actual case studies. I’m not afraid to pick the brains and I think a lot of people get value out of that as well. I try to do that on every episode.

Send me an email to if you want to hook up and explore some of the job opportunities that Agora is having. There is absolutely zero better education and online job experience.

Check out and get at least four videos from Todd where he’s going at this in even more depth and explore the masterclass.

I highly recommend it if you want to have any marketing chops at all, whether you’re doing this for yourself or if you’re a consultant or an agency or somebody who wants to do a better job by their clients like I do. That’s terrific.

It’s such an honor to be on here. I’m so grateful for your friendship and I would love to do it again.

See you all next time.

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About The Guest: Todd Brown

BWB Todd | Better Marketing MethodTodd Brown is the expert other experts go to when they need help with their own business.

With clients in over 33 different countries, operating in over 65 different mass and niche markets, it’s been said that Todd has helped his students engineer more six and seven-figure funnels than any other expert online today.

His list of coaching students, consulting clients, and subscribers reads like a Who’s Who of A-List Entrepreneurs.

His Agency has created the promotions behind some of the biggest direct response marketers and companies online today.

And, entrepreneurs fly-in to West Palm Beach, Florida — from all around the globe — for a single day of guidance with Todd to learn his renowned E5 Method.

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