Bacon Wrapped Business With Brad Costanzo
BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow And Harnessing Your Energy with Chad Mureta from Project EVO


“Flow always wins. If you have any doubt, just look at the Grand Canyon.”

There are few worse fates than spending your life doing something that drains your energy and doesn't reward you. On the other hand, when you feel fully engaged, with meaningful work that you enjoy and get energized by, the rewards often come effortlessly.

That's why I brought Chad Mureta on the show today, co-founder of along with Arman Assadi, to discuss their groundbreaking system that allows you to find your Flow and harness it for more energy, productivity, success and peace of mind.

Some Topics We Discussed Include:

  • The difference between flow and fun
  • The four brain types and how each of them harnesses their flow uniquely
  • Chad and Brad's personal brain types and what those mean
  • The most important characteristic you can have for success
  • What Brad struggles with the most as he tries to find his flow

To learn more about Chad and Project EVO's groundbreaking system, visit

About The Guest: Chad Mureta

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Chad Mureta is an entrepreneur, author, speaker, and co-founder of Project EVO. EVO helps entrepreneurs and professionals find their flow by uncovering who they are and what they do best.

Since 2009 Mureta has led the development and marketing of more than 100 apps including the first “Emoji” iOS app that has been downloaded worldwide more than 155 million times


Finding Your Flow And Harnessing Your Energy with Chad Mureta from Project EVO

We are not going to talk at all about growth hacks and tactical business strategies to ramp your revenue and all that other stuff that we usually dive into.

You know that I take great pride in the fact that every single one of these can be tactically implemented where you can take something, run with it and apply it to your business.

One of the reasons is because whenever I have guests, I only invite people that I have an authentic curiosity about what they're doing, how they're doing it and why they're doing it. If I'm going to spend my time talking to them, I want to learn something that I can apply as well.

I'm not here to kill time. I’m a very busy man, a very big deal. That being said, this is no different. It's not tactical business strategies.

It is arguably much more important to talk about the topic we're going to talk about, which has to do with this state of flow and working inside your specific area of genius.

I’ll be honest that I’ve struggled with this throughout my life and I have taken a multitude of personality profiles and assessments and things that have helped me and guide me along the way.

Much of my own journey has been more of a process of elimination and going, “Nope, that doesn't work. Nope, I hate that. Nope, I suck at this. Next.”

I feel like sometimes I'm whittling away and then eventually you find where your area of flow and genius is. Sometimes I get afraid I’ll figure it out at 80 years old and then fall over dead.

That being said, it is such a critical thing to overall happiness and full engagement in what you're doing that I invited a friend of mine who got a very innovative solution to this.

This is taking the entrepreneurial world especially by storm and has got some massive proponents of it. The things that he and his partner are doing to help people find their flow and uncover who they are and what they do best is remarkable. I'm bringing him to you. His name is Chad Mureta.

Chad is an entrepreneur. He's an author, a speaker, and the Cofounder of Project EVO, which as I mentioned, they help entrepreneurs and professionals and anybody who's trying to grow, find that flow, uncovering their area of genius, who they are and what they do best.

Since 2009, Chad has been in the lead of the development and marketing of more than 100 mobile apps, including the very first emoji app for iOS that's been downloaded worldwide more than 155 million times.

The guy knows a lot about how to succeed and I am looking forward to diving into this conversation because it is a topic near and dear to my heart. I guarantee no matter where you're at, it's something that you are always thinking of.

I have not yet gone through Project EVO and taken my own assessment. I'm going to come in as let's say ignorant about this entire process as you guys are and I'm hoping that we lead to some cool discoveries together. Chad, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I am excited to chat with you.

We always like to start a little bit with the journey and I think that this is probably a pretty good place to start with you because as an entrepreneur, at business, there’s a lot of success there. You made a big pivot in working on some of this more mindset stuff, personal development.

I'd love to see how helping other people find their flow fits into your flow. Let's take it back a little bit and let's talk about your journey there.

I’ve definitely been an entrepreneur from day one and I think there's this whole belief system. A lot of people that are entrepreneurs, they're like, “If you're an entrepreneur, that's amazing. You're doing so many incredible things and you're making all this money.” It's a very hard road entrepreneur. It's not easy.

I’ve seen multiple people on Instagram in front of Ferraris, tell me, entrepreneurism is nothing but glam.

This is maybe my experience. I see the same Ferraris all the time. I don't know if they're happy, but those are some beautiful cars.

Basically, I find myself always being an entrepreneur, working my butt off and it's been an interesting road. I’ve had some success and found my way in real estate way back when thinking, “I want to nail down this life of freedom.”

I was thinking at that point, it was real estate, having 30 realtors working for you was my answer because I would somehow get all this money from them passively. It was probably the worst thinking that I’ve ever had because it led me down this path of stress and unfulfillment. I have no fricking time ever.

It was the worst time in history to open up a real estate company back down in 2006, 2007. That's what started for me because I put all my money into this bucket and worked my ass off to get to a point where I was like, “I’ve made it. I finally made it.

I can be that guy with the Ferrari in Instagram. I can enjoy this incredible life.” Like most of us, I found that road was very painful and I experienced burnout.

I got in a bad car accident and almost lost my arm. I was like, “What the heck am I doing? This is BS.” I looked within myself at that time in a hospital bed thinking, “There's got to be another way.”

Maybe it's me, maybe there's a different vehicle. Real estate might not be the answer. Thank the Lord, I found myself in a position where my buddy came to me and gave me this article about apps.

Not being a technical person at all, being a hustler, I found myself outsourcing for the first time and wiring money to India to finally get into this elusive app business that I just started, by the way.

What year was that?

That was 2009 in January. I found myself making money. I launched it, it started making passive and I was like, “I found the answer. This is the answer. I can finally make money. I knew I had it in me.”

I started building out amazing companies and selling them off. Emoji is one of the first apps I did. I was aka living the dream.

That dream lasted for so long until I reached burnout again and now I'm like, “What the hell? I'm making good money. I'm able to travel and do what I'm able to do. I'm writing a book and I'm getting burned out again. What is going on? Is this actually the way that life is?”

It put me into this interesting place where I started looking within my friend’s patterns, my own patterns and life in general. I'm like, “What causes burnout? What causes this place of stress and cortisol levels?” Which is, by the way, it's the number one killer. Stress is the number one killer.

I became obsessed with this idea of finding out how to show up in a way where I could make a lot of money, have my freedom and not kill myself. I spent a lot of time around Tony Robbins and working in that group and doing a lot of training.

I became curious about how can I use technology that I’ve become an expert at with apps and bridge it into this understanding of who we are and what we do best. That was a big pivotal moment. I think you know my business partner Arman.

He's been one of my best friends for six or seven years. We molded into this mastermind group and started talking about it and we had a very similar vision.

He wanted to write a book and it was like, “Maybe there was an assessment that we can put together here,” and track and see, not only how we're wired, but how would we do this.

Entrepreneurship, a large part of it is the questions that you ask. What are the questions that you asked to get the answers that you're looking for? I remember being with him and sitting down and saying, “How do we actually solve this? Is this something that you can solve or is this just BS?”

With life, no matter what, it’s full of all this stress and we're going to break ourselves down anyway and we shouldn't worry about it. We started inquiring and coming together and it was an incredible moment where we knew that we have to build an assessment.

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow: The road to entrepreneurship is never easy.


Not only that but with Myers-Briggs, StrengthsFinders and all these great assessments, once you take them, it's like, “What’s next?”

People are like, “I have my hands in my pocket. Maybe I'm INPF,” whatever that means, but I have no road map.

It probably is the single biggest problem, what you said, with a lot of these assessments is that's great. I’ve got a little insight, but I’ve got to go back to work. It's given me clues. Some of them have given me more clues and pathways, but a lot of them have not quite generated the flow that I seek.

It's hard to realize that potential. I think that was the obsession that we both came together at like, “How do we type somebody in a way that is like Jungian psychology that's been grandfather of psychology and use our own take on it?”

Also, it’s finding a way to hold someone's hand once they understand their type and give them results, get them to realize their type, get them to realize their potential with the hallucination of once they do that, they're actually going to be happier. Once they do that, their KPIs are all going to rise.

If they do that, what a ripple effect. As any good obsession thought, we became the experiment with that and started going into this assessment piece and typing ourselves. It's been an incredible journey.

We met somebody that basically is an expert in this field. We spent two and a half, three years bringing hundreds of thousands of people through our assessments.

It’s to get to the point of understanding without a shadow of a doubt not only how they process information and make decisions, but also how they see the world and how they can actually get their own flow.

At the end of their day, they're not going to smoke weed and watch TV every single day and be like, “I'm done with my day,” but they feel nurtured, they feel alive.

That's been where we're at right now. We launched on Kickstarter, we broke some records there. We’re the number one funded planner. We did $1.1 million or $1.2 million on Kickstarter.

It's been an amazing journey where we're finally getting to a point where we have all these customers that they've taken the assessments, they've gotten their type and they've got their personalized planner. The personalized planner is made for them.

Now they're getting data and using it every day. Essentially what I call it is it's like mining the data of yourself every day.

What did you say about watching Netflix and smoking weed? That's all I do.

It doesn't sound like a bad Friday and Saturday night, but not in every little thing. Basically it's finding a way to mine that data and help people become more who they are. I believe that people right now we live in a pretty chaotic, fast-paced world where people are not aligned.

If you look at all the studies, if you look at a lot of these major studies that are coming out where not only 90% of people hate their job, but they're also unfulfilled and they're depressed. There's a portion of that are suicidal.

Because without that purpose, you're lost. You're lost completely. We've attacked that space and had incredible results with getting people aligned with who they are.

We'll dive into some of the actual specifics of your assessment and how it's different. There's a handful of questions that I want to talk about. I think I know this, but maybe for our reader’s sake, the difference between flow and fun.

It's very easy to say, “What are all the things you'd enjoy doing? Find what you love and do that. Find your passion.” I think the platitudinal advice is some of the most shallow. A lot of people end up defaulting to, “What do I like to do? What's fun?”

It's easy to find a lot of things that are fun, but that doesn't necessarily equate to flow. For some people out there who've been getting that advice and getting stuck on that treadmill of, “There are a lot of things I like to do, but is this my flow?” How do I know?

Flow always wins. If you have any doubt, just look at the Grand Canyon. Share on X

I think that there is a big misconception of flow. Flow is actually work. There is a point of resistance when it comes to flow. If you look at every major athlete or you look at someone performing, they're not just sitting there. Yes, they're enjoying it, but they're in it.

They hit a speed that is enough resistance and enough passion and they hit that frequency that allows them to lock-in. Flow is a generic way of trying to articulate what that is.

I think we have it in our days when we take care of our self and we're on point and we have intentionality. We call flow when you focus on the right things for your brain type. Every brain type has different things to focus on and once you focus on those things, you know you start to thrive.

That's the big piece for us. That's flow, but it definitely is not all fun at all. There is some work to it and it is something to that for most people out there, there is a learning curve, so it is a little bit hard.

You do get better at it, you do flex the muscle, but it is a consistent state that you get yourself into that requires you to actually play full out. You can't just sit there with your hands in your pockets waiting for it to happen to you. Flow doesn't just typically happen.

It's that point where even though it's hard, it’s not effortless. There's a big difference, but you're doing hard work. You're doing something that is not easy to do. You've maybe worked a long time to make it feel this effortless.

It's maybe that combination of natural ingrained talent. It may be not even talent because talent developed, but it's that plus your natural inclinations. Some of us are more creative than others. Some of us are more methodical.

Somebody may be super methodical in doing accounting and bookkeeping and this complex financial stuff and it's stuff that I want to go, “No.” For somebody else, it's hard to work on but they're focused and there's a part of it that lights them up. They're like, “I'm fully engaged.”

I always think of that power. There's a great book too called The Power of Full Engagement. I think full engagement and flow are like kissing cousins probably.

I’ve talked about this before, but it's always been funny for me where I’ve had a hard time creating what I consider goals, especially smart goals in my life, which are those specific measurable, actionable something.

This is for my life right now. It's easy to create business goals like, “The company needs to do $1 million next quarter. We need to do this much acquisition.”

For me, I’ve always preferred fuzzy goals and to me, fuzzy goals are a little bit better because they're much more like aspirations and goals.

Instead of me saying, “I need to make $1 million a year, $10 million a year, and I want to live at this place. I want to drive this car and I want to have this,” none of those actually created any energy in my body.

It was funny because I set goals for myself or had these aspirations and I almost did this out of frustration.

I said, “I’ve got three things I want out of life. I want to be fully engaged in the work that I'm doing.” Meaning I want to enjoy it, I want to be good at it, I want to be engaged.

“Number two, I want to be financially rewarded. I want to make good money.” It was so hard for me to actually set a dollar value on it because after a few hundred thousand dollars, you can live pretty darn what you want.

Granted, do I want the millions of dollars a year in income and all of this? Absolutely. That's great. As a goal, no. I want to be fully engaged. I want to make good money and I want to work with people who I love and inspire me.

It's funny how when I look back especially the past few years where I’ve started to accidentally find my flow in some areas and not in others, but I'm pretty fully engaged in what I do. I like what I do. I make good money and I work with amazing people who inspire me.

I get to talk to people like yourself and stuff. I'm like, “It's cool.” When I look back, I'm like, “I’ll be damned. Maybe I’ve achieved some of this stuff.” I will say the one thing that I constantly struggle with is I find a lot of things engaging personally.

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow: Flow is actually work.


I can be engaged in this for a while. My ADD took over and I'm like, “Now I'm engaging this.” I’m trying to find that real common thread of what is my flow, how do I do more of it and get much more focused on that and still take care of what I call feeding the animals.

How do I still take care of that other stuff and remain in flow as much as possible? I cannot tell you how many subjects of my morning journaling this has been and it is frustrating.

It is for most people. I think you've nailed it on a lot of levels. You found your way to get into what works for you. Primarily it's falling energy. Flow gives you energy. If you're working all day on a certain thing and it drains you, that's not flow.

I think finding ways to give all the energy and to lean into that is one of the most important things. The second piece of that, which you talked about and a lot of people don't do this, this is why I'm so passionate about it, is you have these data points.

We sat down and watched whatever you're doing, and looked at the activities that get you flow and these are the things that take away from flow.

If we had those little data points over the course of a month, two months, three months, we would be able to become a lot more aware of how to get you back into the flow.

If you're more in the flow and you're enjoying more things and if you're tweaking it a little bit, what does that look like in your life? How does that compound? You work so hard, you're in a great spot now.

I'm assuming at some point in your life it wasn't that easy. You weren't finding your flow and you were probably pretty frustrated.

It's taken a long time and I'm still not even 100% there because I still find myself doing stuff that I'm like, “Why am I doing this?” Sometimes it feels necessary. I know it is true.

You have to feed the animals. Sometimes you've got to do stuff. I can't say this, but maybe you've seen some people, nobody's in flow all the time.

It's a state where you reach, but nobody is in this perfect flow state of bliss at all times. We all have to shovel crap once in a while. I think the key, which we'll dive into more here, is how do you clarify what your flow is?

That's the one area I don't mind having fuzzy life goals and aspirations. I don't mind being in the river of life and playing with synchronicity and letting it take me to another place where it's like, “I wanted to do this, but I’m totally open to new opportunities.”

Because those synchronicities and chain reactions that lead to completely unexpected opportunities are, I think, the juice of life. The one thing that I don't want to be fuzzy is what is my state of flow and how do I get there as often as possible and do it more?

Especially because going back to that quote, I was reading a great book by Gay Hendricks called The Big Leap. It's a bestselling book. It’s amazing.

In it, they were talking about flow. The quote was that “Flow always wins. If you have any doubt, look at the Grand Canyon.”

If people don't know, shame on you for skipping Geology class. The Grand Canyon was formed, I think it was by the Colorado River on a plateau. Over thousands, hundred thousands, millions of years, however long, that flow created the grooves.

That created more grooves and the compound interest works. It carved one of the most magnificent things that the planet has. Flow always wins. Before I dive into your methodology, I want to talk about your experience.

I have to hope that you've identified and found your flow and know what that is. Tell me about the before areas, some of the stuff you were doing that drained your energy, some of your frustrations there and how you found yours and what your flow is and then we'll dive into the methodology.

That example of the Grand Canyon is so important because it's consistency. I look at the masters that have mastered this and there are a lot of people that have mastered flow.

Anyone that plays at a crazy high level, this is what they do best. That's it. They don't have crazy spikes up or down. They have mastered this and it's maybe not a ten every day but maybe it's an eight every day. I think part of it is the belief system of like what that looks like for us.

We call it flow when you focus on the right things for your brain type. Share on X

For me, I spent a lot of my time being in the roller coaster, being a ten one day, then being a two another day and then being an eight and then trying to biohack myself and trying to learn more. I'm trying to do big deals and being at the end of the day, a caveman, throwing crap up against the wall, seeing what sticks.

I will say right now, very transparently, you are describing me at this exact moment. I’ll hit those flows, I’ll see it now. I’ll be down here and then it's like a caveman throwing crap at the wall. Keep going. This is fantastic.

I found myself there and a lot of people find themselves there. This is a normal place, especially for entrepreneurs because we're not that aware of internally what's going on with ourselves and what finding our flow is and what actually is sustainable.

I think we all have this like dopamine hit and it's an addiction. Entrepreneurship within a day is an addiction and it's like we want to do the next big deal.

We get energy from these things and at the cost of our own health most of the time. There are very few people that I know of where I see that are in sync and showing up as an eight every single day.

What my journey looked like most was this burnout phase and also this frustration of my own certainty in my brain and trying to find sustainability in the smog and chaos of life and not finding it. Finding my highs, sure. Finding my lows, sure.

I would build up a company, work my ass off, not sleep for days and days and sell it off. Now I’ve got to take months off to recover until I do it again. That type of belief system and then what that's supposed to happen, it's the most insane thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

This is what we subscribe to. Most people subscribe to this way of life, especially being an entrepreneur. What I found when we got deep into this journey was how do I set my day up properly?

It all starts with being in ten flat. I think what you said was great too. The river of life, there's flexibility. There's fluid and you don't want to be putting your flag pole in and not be too rigid, not to see the signals of flexibility.

Playing on that metaphor a little bit more, it's like if you think about the river of life, it's never a smooth river. It's not like an easy flow. It's rapids.

Life is a rapid flow. If you're in the rapids and you find a tree branch, you hold onto that tree branch and that can be a good place to get your breath or whatever.

If it's flowing, the more you hold onto that, it's going to whip you around and it's going to maybe whip you up against a rock nearby and all that other stuff. If you're holding on so tight to your little branch, “This is my thing,” it's going to beat you up.

It's oftentimes not until you let go and let flow, let go and go with the flow. All these things are clichés, but for a reason. As long as it doesn't slam you up into a rock, which happens, but if you let it go and don't resist so much, that's oftentimes how you navigate down the river.

I’ve been actually pretty good at that. Some people aren't as good at it. Some people internally, they're not as flexible. I'm a little bit more flexible and I say, “Let's go.”

The problem is sometimes I think I sometimes go with the flow too much, but it’s where it takes me as opposed to intentionally saying, “I’ll go with the flow, but I'm going this way.”

That's a great analogy. The biggest piece that I’ve found is once we create this assessment, I found out that I'm an explorer. I was able to look at my life and understand myself, why every day I want to do adventures, I want to have fun.

Why all these to-dos? Because a lot of times we don't see ourselves and we compare ourselves with others. We feel bad. My brain has never been in a position where I’ve got 50 things on a checklist and I'm rocking it out.

I’ve never had good structure at all. I never want to be controlled by my day or anybody or have this rigid schedule. I found myself thinking I was having freedom by showing up and like, “Let me rock it,” not even knowing what that meant.

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow: There is flexibility in the river of life.


When we built this assessment and I saw that I not only need to 100% make sure that I have fun in my day and I plan fun, but I also realized that my brain only needs one thing. It's in chunks. It’s one thing in the morning, one thing in the afternoon and one thing in the evening.

If I get into the habit of focusing on those things and doing those things, then I’ll feel better. If I feel better, I’ll enjoy my day, I’ll show up better and then that compounds onto that. Secondarily, what I also found is I have a lot of patterns, believe it or not.

Like everybody, I have a lot of patterns that once I'm tracking my day, which EVO is all about tracking too. Once I'm tracking my day, I start seeing these patterns and I start understanding when I'm not doing so good in my days and why that is.

This is a very obvious thing that if we all sat down and put a journal and wrote, it would be somewhat easier to understand how to get a better day tomorrow. Most people don't do this.

It's funny along those lines and I haven't seen inside the Project EVO journal yet, but it reminds me of what one of my good friends and former guest, Sean Stephenson.

Have you ever met Sean? He's three feet tall, in a wheelchair, but one of the most amazing public speakers and human beings ever. He's got this thing called his When Life Works worksheet and it's a tracker.

He's identified all of the things like, “When life works well,” he's like, “these are the things I did. I got a good sleep, I'm well hydrated. I kissed my wife or I had sex or I did this or I talked to a client,” or something.

He's got like twenty different things and then he tracks them out in a worksheet over the course of the month. I’ll send you a version of what he's got because what's interesting is he rates at the top, number one, how many of these did I do? What percentage? “It’s 70%.”

He rates on a level of one to ten I think, his mood and his productivity. If his productivity was a ten and his mood was a ten, he goes, “There's an almost perfect correlation that I did a lot more things in my day of when life works. I did these.”

“If I had a crappy mood or I wasn't productive,” he looks down and he accomplished 20% of his When Life Works habits. I thought that was interesting. I don't know if that has any correlation to what you guys do, but it made me think about that.

It's a similar framework in the sense of there's obviously wisdom nuggets that we know that we can focus on and we call it the key things to thrive. Instead of having twenty things per brain type, we have a few things. That's what we focus on.

It's a very similar principle that every day we can understand. Some things are out of our control for sure, but I think inherently we can do way better at controlling our day and doing the things that we want to be doing.

That's the second piece. We know that's so powerful because we have this app that you use with the planner where you scan and we start using machine learning to aggregate all this data. You start understanding it. That's an empowering piece.

A few years ago I was again throwing crap against the wall, not knowing what affected my day or how I should do things and trying to fit everybody else's schedules and routines. I also think the big pieces, like when you work in a team and you understand their type and you understand there were the nuggets of what makes them better.

You start getting compassion and working with them in a way that fuels them. Because we're leaving this world of, “I want to get productive and push everybody until burnout.” That doesn't work anymore.

This is a piece of not only your own self-realization but also with your wife, your friends, your teammates, going deeper with understanding the way that they work with their own flow.

It’s being this accountability person to help them be better since once they're better, you're better. I think that's what is needed. That's getting such a viral component to our mission.

Let's go into a little more detail on you and your flow right now. You mentioned you're an explorer and we'll dive into that nomenclature for you because it's a Project EVO thing, but qualitatively, what is your flow? What are you doing? What's it like?

I chunk my schedule. I focus on a few things that work for you well, which is actually this fun task that I schedule for myself. Some people schedule they have certain meetings, certain things that they're doing. I have to do that. It sounds easy, it's like, “You just have fun.”

No, it's a step further than that. I have to schedule and know that this thing lights me up because when I start my day, if I know that's in my day, then my day changes and it isn't just, “I'm going to throw something in your calendar.” It's something that I have thought through.

When it comes to work, what lights you up? What makes you feel fully engaged in flow, utilizing the best of the best of Chad?

For me, we have a deeper assessment that goes into our craft. I'm a creator so I want to be creative. I want to be creating stuff with people that I'm inspired by.

I am a great maximizer in the sense that I don't necessarily like to do the busy work and the raw material part, but what I am good at is jumping in. Once I see that and being like, “We do this and this,” it's going to double conversions.

Like EVO, I drew out a lot of this stuff that you see. I pick the colors, pick the way I look. That lights me up, getting into that creation mode.

There are specific tasks like that that I now focus on. With my team, I’ll go in and say with Amazon. I'm a maximizer and I'm an explorer, so it's like a visionary. There are all these parts to each type.

I’ll go in and I’ll be like, “How do we make the pictures look better? Let me focus on maybe some of the copy, let me focus on the way we're communicating this stuff.”

It’s a lot of the creative elements.

It’s a lot of the creative elements and obviously being around people that I can link into. If I was to meet with me, I would be pretty pissed because I wouldn't want to work with someone like me.

I need somebody like an Architect, which Arman is an architect that can realize my potential because he works completely differently opposite than me. I also am going a step level and saying, “Who are the people? My assistant is an architect. Thank God for my assistant.”

I don't know what I would do in my day if I didn't have her. We complement each other. It's actually finding people to complement you so you can execute what you're looking to do. I’ve been very efficient with lining up my days with those types of people.

You bring up something important there too about whether it's your partner employees or people like that. You wouldn't like to work with somebody who's exactly like you. To pick that apart, I think we like to work with somebody who is like us, but that's the problem.

We like it but it doesn't work. It doesn't mean it's productive, but we get sucked in. It's like, “You're like me. We're twinsies. Let's start a business together.” You’re both wanting to work on the same stuff and then the other stuff doesn't get done because neither of us likes to do it.

That is a thing that you usually have to learn by experience. My very first business succeeded. It was an information product and it succeeded specifically in retrospect because we were opposites. I was the creative, he was the technical and I'm super extroverted.

He's probably more introverted and it worked like magic. Our very first business was a success. It's rare to say that. I’ve had other businesses fail because I worked with people who are identical to me and I was like, “This was fun. We had a lot of good brainstorming sessions, but nothing got done.”

It does feel good because you can see each other and you have the same language. I went back to all the companies that I’ve created that have worked and every single business partner I’ve had was an architect in our system, and it makes sense because it is challenging because you're opposite.

Your language is a little bit different. That's what worked at the time. They needed someone like me, I needed somebody like them. At the end of the day, we all need each other and we all work with people. We're not going to get away from that.

When you can align yourself with the right people from a brain type perspective, then you also find your flow because you're doing your part and you see it actualized.

I think for me as an entrepreneur, when I see that actualize, I'm like, “I'm going to wake up tomorrow and do the same thing as that feels good,” versus sitting and rocking back and forth.


Let's dive into Project EVO and the assessment. We can talk about obviously the results of the assessment. When people go to Project EVO, feel free to then extrapolate this.

You've got four primary brain types and you've already mentioned yours, but there's the Explorer, the Alchemist, the Oracle and the Architect. I love the names, by the way. They're cool and sexy.

Let's go into what each of these kinds of types are and some of the nuances that we need to know. You also have some things in here that talk about abstract versus concrete, external versus internal. Explain to me what these are and a little bit more.

Based on our little chart, you can see the different types. An architect is the opposite of me. That's all I'm on. The great thing is that we are the external world, real-world thinkers.

We aligned well because it's not as abstract where an Oracle and an Alchemist is more on abstract. They have all these string of thoughts that they bring together in multiple realities.

Let me pause right there because I actually think of a better way to explain this. Besides the four types, you have abstract versus concrete. I want to explore that a little bit more and external versus internal.

I think those matter because where the types are have to do with that. Abstract versus concrete, what more specifically does that mean?

It means that it’s a real-world thing. It’s grounded in a real context that is an everyday thing that you see versus abstract is it can be anything.

It's like waves of thoughts that might not even be real, at least in this reality. A lot of people can come up with their own creative thoughts but has nothing to do with an everyday process.

Internal and external?

It's like do you process internally. Am I processing internally inside first or am I externally processing from the world or am I getting my information?

This is what's great about our system is because once you know that you're making decisions based on what you either see externally out in the world or internally, you're bringing the information you're making internally.

It starts to give you some a-ha’s with your own decision-making ability. Knowing how you process information first is very important to understand yourself.

The Explorer, the Alchemist, the Oracle and the Architect. You said you were an Explorer. What are some of the other aspects of an Explorer?

A lot of explorers are visionaries and it's real-world visionary. There is this like futurality to it. It is future-pacing.

I like futurality. I don't know if that's an actual word, but I like it if it's not.

It is that piece where there's a lot of energy involved. There is this excitement about building something, creating something. That's why a lot of visionaries are super creative because they see it in their head and they create it.

Explorers are also very active. They've got to be in nature. An Architect or an Alchemist, everyone loves nature, for sure it helps, but they don't need to be in nature as much or care about their environment.

I am so particular about my environment that when I get into a place, I have to set it up. I have to make sure that it's clean and has certain things. That fuels my energy.

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I didn't even realize that I was doing this before, but I was. When I realized that when we did our typing system, I'm like, “I'm going to double down on that.” What would that look like if was aware enough to actually go to the next level of setting up my environment?

What does it do? It doubles my energy and makes me feel even more alive. Those are little things that I think you can use to actualize your time.

What are some of the other top-level characteristics of Alchemists, Oracle or Architect?

The Alchemist, they’re super creative. They're basically turning nothing into something. It’s alchemy. When you see alchemists, what they need is variety.

It isn't like me where I have these chunks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, one in the evening. It's variety-driven and they need to learn stuff.

Alchemists love to learn stuff and share information. They set their day up in a way where they have probably a few things that are different each day. They don't want the same day.

It actually drains their energy. If you're actualizing your type, you're getting energy, and if you're not actualizing your type, you're getting completely lost in energy. That's an easy way to know if you're in flow or not quickly.

A lot of my alchemist friends for them, they're setting themselves up to go on little lunch meetings randomly in a city. They travel a lot, they read new books constantly. They share what they're learning and that makes them feel alive.

An Oracle is a mystery. The Oracle has all these different nuanced thoughts that they can bring together. An Oracle on a team is one that it's like, “What does this person do?”

They're so mysterious. They’re sometimes quiet, but they can wear lots of hats. An Oracle can do a lot of things where I can't do that many things.

I can only do what I'm good at. Oracle can write sales copy, email something, do a sales call or program something. They can do so many different things.

There are assets to most teams once they can understand how they were and they get burnt out quickly when they're around too many people. They need to put themselves away and create space to think to themselves. They need personal time.

We talk about thriving. It seems strange that I need to have fun and they need to go be by themselves, but that's a piece of their brain side that they need to reset to go back out into the world. That's a big part of it.

An Architect needs structure. That's why every Architect I’ve ever met, they have a list of things. They know it's scheduled. They know they have certainty on their own balance in what they're doing.

If they don't do that balance, then they get overwhelmed the fastest because they're the ones that are the builders in the world. Every major architect has built some incredible things in the world.

They actualize and execute these incredible tasks. That’s why I’ve been able to do these apps and be successful is because behind the veil is an architect building and creating.

By the way, I did take the test. I don't know if you can guess what I am.

I would say Explorer because it's me or an Alchemist, one of those.

I am an Alchemist. I'm interested to see more of the details on that. I'd be curious to know, is there a degree of Alchemists versus Explorers? They'd be interesting to see. I have a feeling that I'm between Explorer, Alchemist and Oracle.

Alchemists gravitate toward the abstract and theoretical. They prefer experimenting with their ideas in the real world, and develop a lot of their key ideas while interacting with other people. They are mostly focused on the future and all the possibilities it holds.

Alchemists can bring structure to things and work with practical details like an Architect if they need to, but too much time in this kind of work gets exhausting as it’s not their core strength.


I was like, “A lot of these sound like me in a lot of different ways.” I'm sure that none of us are like 100% this or the other. We all have degrees of stuff.

I'm curious if you guys output that data and if not, I think that would be interesting to go, “You are like 70% Alchemist and 30% Explorer,” this is where you are on the spectrum.

These are basically the four functions of the brain. We go back and forth, we vacillate between all. What we identified is you primarily spend your energy in one of these pieces.

If you can maximize your day based on that, then it's going to work well for you. There is a secondary type that you also can be aware of. The first and secondary type, you spend most of your time.

There are all four parts of your brain. The actual brain type that we have is the simplest one we created. It's called the EVO Way. We have a whole other assessment that identifies exactly what you're saying. It's a huge comprehensive understanding of the percentages and all four types.

We have this whole thing with the app where as you're scanning and getting data, you can then see how well you are doing at these types. If you are an Alchemist, how well are you utilizing that?

I think that's the other piece of it. It's not just knowing which type you are. It's how well are you doing at that.

By the way, one of the things, to give you feedback on the degree of accuracy this is, what's cool is I’ve taken a lot of personality and assessments like this. I’ve done Myers-Briggs, DISC and StrengthsFinder and all of these and all of them have been what I think fairly accurate.

The ones that have given me the most direction or like, “There's actually something I can do with this,” one of them is Roger Hamilton's Wealth Dynamics, which I like. The other one is Perry Marshall's Marketing DNA. Have you taken that one?

I haven't. No.

Here's what's interesting about the Marketing DNA because it relates to marketing. You get a four-part score. It's not a type, but it's like an aspect as Alchemists and that's the main thing.

It's interesting how he doesn't group it into four things like you guys are doing, but he rates it as on one scale, it's either an Alchemist or the other extreme would be a Producer. The other stuff it's like live versus recorded, words versus images, analytics versus empathy.

It's these extremes on other ends, but it's cool. It does show the degree of consistency and accuracy in what you're doing. Another one that I liked also framed me in the same thing after taking that test. I love this because it once more reinforces that you guys also know what you're doing as well.

I think the piece that we've differentiated and leaned into is the languaging. Because language, if you look at the beginning of civilization, what spreads things more than language?

We've doubled down on how can we language this in a way with these types and even our main assessments where it's sticky enough where you can type somebody pretty quickly and understand them.

When I found out my mom was an Oracle, I understood her. I understand you now, even though we're friends and we had dinner and talked. I understand you way more now than I did before that.

My mom, I understood her when she was an Oracle and I'm like, “I understand you so much. This is why you took time away to get back to yourself.” It was incredible, me seeing her for the first time.

As weird as that sounds because it creates that sticky language and it's beautiful because it brought us closer together. Our relationship has completely changed because of that.

The people we work within our team, Team EVO, we understand each other more than this producing, getting stuff done aspect. I think that's the human piece that is important to us in this world right now. How can we be humans and come together and help ourselves become more of who we are?

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That's what it is. The theory is if you can do that and show up and help each other, then you'll produce results in a way that doesn't crush your soul.

What's great about this too is this is positive stereotyping. Stereotyping is usually negative. It's like, “It's a stereotype. It’s this, that or the other.”

It's usually based upon culture or race. “All Asians are good at math,” is a common stereotype or stuff like that. It's like, “That's negative.” There are two things about that.

Number one, I can't remember the exact context of this, but psychologists have done studies that prove stereotyping is so effective. Our brains are so honed in on if we can stereotype this person or whatever, the accuracy of that goes beyond anything else.

Through evolution and everything else, we recognize patterns subconsciously that they're not always accurate, but they're actually the most accurate and can be used negatively for stereotype like, “All people of this culture or race or this, that or the other are like that.”

In this case, if you can understand the basics of these patterns and you can stereotype this person that in general, Brad is an Alchemist, it doesn't mean that he is all alchemist all the time and that he doesn't have any of these other things.

If I know this, then that allows me to better communicate with him and to understand what makes him tick, what makes him get ticked off, and how to motivate him and how to crush him and all this other crap.

When other people do accept these, for lack of a better word, positive stereotypes in these profiles and we communicate them with each other, it increases the effectiveness of communications so much more, especially when it's done in a very positive way.

It's funny, on your page here, I brought up a little bit more of the description of Alchemists and I’ll show this to everybody so that my readers can understand me a little bit more.

It's a few sentences, but it says, “Alchemists gravitate towards the abstract and theoretical. They prefer experimenting with their ideas in the real world and develop a lot of their key ideas when interacting with other people.”

It is freaking true. “They're mostly focused on the future and all the possibilities that holds,” which sometimes is debilitating because I see all the possibilities and I’ve got this very empowering belief that anything is possible.

That is also like, “Crap. I wish I thought some things were more impossible. I wouldn't chase so many squirrels.” The last part is, “Alchemists can bring structure to things and work with practical details like an Architect if they need to,” very true, “but too much time in this work is exhausting and it's not their core strength.”

This reminds me of a client I'm working with right now and I worked with before and it's been great. I was brought on as an advisor to do higher-level consulting on their business growth. As time progressed, they lost some resources and I had to step up and do more of the stuff and bring structure because that's what they were starting to say.

It was like, “We'd like to have this on a calendar and structure and more transparency,” and much more down in the weeds stuff. It caused tremendous stress for me because number one, that's not what I was brought in to do and although I could do it, that's not my strength.

I partnered up with a company here in town and it’s an incredible agency. We've created a strategic partnership. They took over all of that stuff and here's what's great.

I thought I was about ready to hand the client off and say, “The things they need is not in my area of strength anymore. I'm much more of an Alchemist.” I actually joked, I said, “I'm a savant, not a servant.” You bring me in for my mind and what I can do and the ideation and how it all fits.

I was ready for them to let me go and I said, “If you guys want to phase me out as they do the work, that's totally cool.” They're like, “No. This is so perfect that you've done this. We are going to pay you a 50% higher retainer per month.

We want you to interface and do what you do with this team so that they can implement all of your amazing ideas. It's a good thing you finally realized that.” I can't tell you the degree of freedom and it's opened up the floodgates of ideas.

I like being more strategically aligned. They are much more so like the Architects. They're the ones who are going to get that stuff done with structure.

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow: We have to step into those situations where you can exercise your genius but also get energy from it.


As I’ve aligned with them for myself and for some other clients that we're now potentially working together, it's one of those things that demonstrates when you do get rid of the things that drain your energy.

Only allow you to work in flow, not only do I like it better, but my clients were so relieved, they paid me more money.

I think there's a belief that we can't do that. We’ve got to do these other things, but that's such BS. We have to step into those situations where you can exercise your genius but also get energy from it and find people that can do the other pieces of it. We have to do that.

I love that story because it's a quintessential story of how you find better alignments. The more aligned you are, the more everything is going to feel better.

It's pretty simple math, but these are great examples of how now you know this, maybe the next client it’s like how do you align again and be like, “This works. I want to replicate this model.”

One of my problems is I have the ability to do everything they needed from the structural side. I am frustratingly competent in a lot of stuff, but I'm not the best at a lot of stuff.

If I'm competent enough to where I can do it that I shouldn't be doing it. Number one, I don't like to do it.

Number two, the work is not nearly as good as somebody where that's their genius. There's that common quote, “Find somebody who views the stuff that you view as hard work, they view as play.” It's in their flow. Find those people.

The other thing that helped flip my switch of letting go of control is that think of the gift you're giving somebody. If you have work you hate to do and they love to do it and you allow them to do it, even if you pay them, obviously it will be more productive and better results.

Think of a gift you're giving to somebody else if you're giving them a project to work on. That helped me relinquish control and going, “Screw it. I can do it. I'm going to do it anyway.”

I'm 45 years old. I’ve had a lot of ups and downs and more ups than downs, but it still takes a long time to integrate and learn this because we aren't taught this in school. We don't grow up with this. You've got to learn it through trial and error.

That's a big piece that for us in our mission, I want to rewrite that BS system. I can't name the university right now, but we have a university that has agreed to work with us.

We have our own EVO lab and they're going to do an official study across a certain amount of times and people that actually show the KPIs rising. Once we have that credibility, which it does, we know that it works, then we're going to make some big moves with this though.

I'm going through some of the pages here and whatnot. You take the first brain type test or something. It tells me what I am and then it says I can access my EVO Planner. Explain to me a little bit about the EVO Planner, what it is, how it helps and what this helps me do.

The planner is the next step of realizing your potential. It's a physical planner and we've made it like if Apple did a planner, I could say its most beautiful planner. It's definitely beautiful.

We've taken that and we're like, “This is your system.” It's something that you can use. I'm going to get you one, by the way. You can use that. It's set up so every layout is different for type.

We tested this with every type through hundreds of thousands of people to see what layout fits best for that type. Your layout looks very different than mine and there are certain things that you should focus on that I shouldn't focus on.

We have it separated by that and then we have the little bubbles, almost like you took SATs. You fill out one to ten during your day and then your brain type activity. Once you use your app, you basically scan the information in the planner and then it grabs the data and that's where we start using machine learning.

If you're not a planner person, which some people are, then you can use the app manually and do the same thing. I’ve found that the planner is a physical reminder.

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The physicality of walking up and waking up and doing my planner has helped my entire life. I don't know what I would do without it.

You’re an app guy though. Is there a Project EVO app?

There is. There's an app that we have that you get all your data.

I was going to be a little disappointed if the guy who created the app empire didn't have an app as well.

We’ve got an app for that. That’s basically the full system right now is the planner system with the app and knowing your type.

By the way, I’ll tell you, I don't know if your app does this or not, but would it be super cool if it doesn't already exist? I’ve become a massive convert. A client of mine bought me the iPad Pro with the pencil and all this.

I got a MacBook and all this other stuff. I’ve got all the other stuff. I don't need the iPad Pro. He bought it for me and I am freaking obsessed with it. I use the pencil and the journaling thing all the time. I don't know if you have an iOS version of the journal. I love the physical journal too.

Funny that you say that because that's what we're working on right now. I also am obsessed with that and having the digital piece of it is very useful for people.

I usually have so many journals and I love paper and all that, but the fact that I can pull this thing out and write on it, I use it for everything.

It's engaging. We go back to consistency. If you don't have the planner and you have that digital version, I want to know how your flow is every day because then I can give you better answers to stay there.

I think that's the biggest piece of the whole system. It isn't just like, “Here's this thing.” It's like, “No. Let's make it easy for you to give us information so you can see it and become aware.” Because of the mindfulness piece of showing up and creating your day is actually on us.

What I like what you're saying is there are a lot of planners out there, you do it and then you do it for yourself. I like the feedback mechanism or the feedback loop that you guys have created so that whenever I do that and as long as I track it, then you guys are giving me data.

I get rewarded for taking those actions. Oftentimes, if I don't journal one day, nobody knows, nobody cares. There is no consequence of me not journaling.

If I don't journal with you guys, the consequence is I don't get valuable data in return. I think that's a great feedback loop mechanism thing.

It will shock you too. We send you a little bracelet that we shock you. It forces you.

Is Arman an Architect?

He's an Architect.

I'm going to have my wife do this, but I'm going to guess that she is an Architect as well because we're polar opposites on a lot of things, but it works. That's cool.

You mentioned consistency. I wrote an article on Medium and Influencive. The title of the article, I can't remember, but this invisible skill is the single most high-paying skill.

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow: Consistency is a boring word.


That's not the exact title, but it's the fact that it's consistency. Consistency is the most rewarded character trait and skillset. I proved it with a couple of things.

For instance, in sports. The reason why Michael Jordan was the most highly paid basketball player of all time, or at least at the time.

The reason that any athlete, in the sports analogy, is the most highly paid is not that they can hit a home run or score a touchdown once in a while. It's not the degree like, “That was the best basket ever.” No. It's a basket.

It is because they're consistently good and when you're consistently good at something, it's not even the reward that you get. You consistently get rewards. It is actually insurance for the people who are paying you.

If you own the sports team, like if I own the Chicago Bulls, for instance and Michael Jordan's on my team, as long as Michael is or was consistent, I can count on him, which means my probability of losing is a lot less and we all hate to lose.

The more consistent somebody is, the more you can count on them, the more it reduces your risk. That comes to do with let's say you’re in the service business. You're a financial planner, you're an accountant or you're a lawyer.

As long as you consistently show up and consistently provide good results, that consistency creates certainty or at least removes the lack of certainty in my mind. I'm willing to pay a lot more for that certainty than I am for a potential home run. This also goes with actors.

Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Leo DiCaprio and all the A-list actors, why do they get the most money? Is it because they give the best performance or is it because you can count on them to consistently give good performances over time, which reduces the risk of a flop at the box office?

By the way, consistency is boring, I think. It is one of those boring words ever like, “Consistently do this.” When you realize that it's the most highly paid attribute or characteristic that you can develop, then it creates more importance to do it.

It's a standard. It's like that standard that you set for yourself. You show up and you're right. The masters do that. They are consistent, period. It reduces risks.

It's a risk reduction. I don't think most people think about that. It is the one area of my life, I’ve got more than that. I say one, but it is one area that I'm not consistent enough and I am very cognizant of that.

I don't work out as consistently as I need to. I don't eat as consistently healthy as I should. I don't consistently practice maybe a specific skill in business like I should. I jump around from one thing to the other.

They say knowing you've got a problem is half the battle. It’s knowing that that's your issue. Once it's visible, you can start to take steps to change that.

You guys have created tools such as Project EVO and the EVO Planner to not only bring awareness, bring tools, but then bring feedback to keep people accountable and consistent. That's what I think is so awesome about what you've done.

I have the same problem. Consistency to me is a boring word. I think when your flow is that a certain level of consistency, the actions that you take to get consistent aren’t boring.

You can actually mix it each day so it's exciting, but I want to make better choices. I want to be an eight every day. When I see my path to doing that, it is still a journey, it's still a road.

Every day, I’ve got to work at it to find my flow, but it is so much more rewarding. The baseline of your own KPIs, your own life and your own fulfillment, they do rise.

Not that it's perfect, but if I know that I'm constantly getting a little bit better, that progress, unlocking my brain immediately makes me feel better. I can count on that and stay improving if I can see myself and I show up every day with this little bit understanding of like, “This is how I'm going to make it better.”

The key piece is showing up consistently. What’s the compounding effect of that? That changes your life. It’s huge.

Now is the time where we crack some nuts. I’ve got a question I ask every guest. What's a nut you're trying to crack right now? By a nut, I mean this could be a skill you're trying to learn, a person you're trying to meet or money you're trying to raise.

It could be anything out there that is not just incremental growth like, “We want more people to take the test and more people to buy the EVO Planner,” or whatever. Are there any nuts you're trying to crack right now that myself or some of my readers could ring a bell in their head and go, “I got you?”

It is around the proliferation of these assessments, our main assessment we are coming out with. It's some type of partnership that exponentially gets this out there where it isn't a solopreneur and a cool planner, but the mission that we're doing is realized.

I want to be a household name and a thing that affects change in the world in the sense of schools and companies. The nut I'm trying to crack is what does that partnership look like? How can we get it out there?

How can you leapfrog all this other stuff and make it?

Instead of us incrementally taking one step forward, what does that partnership look like? What organization can take that and spread this thing as much as possible? We're at that stage where it's time to grow and get it out there.

Have you guys come up with any general ideas on what that might look like yet?

The general idea is aligning with a company like Start With Why that has relationships with a lot of companies and getting them. They have the platforms to getting a company like that to get it into the ecosystem of some of these bigger companies.

They can start getting into companies that can look at their employees very differently. They're not just trying to burn out their employees, but they're actually them in a way that gets the best out of them and makes them feel alive.

Besides all the fluffiness of the way that comes off, it's more of like, “That is our biggest lever to pull because that's what we care about. We want to stop burnout and stress.”

If one of my readers happens to be either CEO or highly C-Suite or something like that with a decent-sized company and they're like, “This is freaking awesome. I would love to see how this can impact the productivity of my employee’s health, happiness.” Obviously that helps their bottom line.

Talk to them right now. If somebody out there is reading, they've got 10,000 employees and they're fascinated by this, what could you do for them?

We could set them up, we could get them access to our main assessment. We could start beta with them and get access to their team and help them onboard this assessment in a way where they can actualize results. I'm very confident. We've seen that with a few teams already and ourselves.

I would say we will hold their hand, get them the information, give them the system, set them up with planners, if that's the case.

Get them inside the app and then get the beta going where we can measure that and have these conversations to truly get the best out of their people because it will give them results of the bottom line.

Not only will they realize their results, but there will be less turnover. Employees will be happier, there will be a company that people want to go work with. I think that's the biggest insurance policy to any startup or any company these days.

Let me ask you this, because I don't even think I asked you this. You do have a commercial. I don't know how many assessments you have. It sounded like you have more than one, but the brain type assessment is free.

Anybody can take it at the site, and then obviously I can go purchase the planner. There's a commercial aspect for you. I don't know if you have other options for people who wish to ascend and go more or go deeper.

Hopefully, you do because you're a smart businessman. If I'm the owner of a company, the CEO, obviously we give the brain type assessments.

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Finding Your Flow: Employees are happier when they are in a company that they want to work with.


We could buy planners in bulk at a discount maybe enroll other people. I assume you might have other training programs, membership stuff that goes deeper down the rabbit hole. Can you make that?

We have a main assessment that is fire. It's like what we did times probably 50 on the Brain Type. Brain Type is to give an initial, like, “This is where you spend a lot of your time in your brain.”

This main assessment, it's the top three crafts of what you do best. It's like Myers-Briggs meets StrengthsFinders and so that's important because the alignment of people. Once we know your crafts, we can look at the projects and get very sniper-ish on those tasks to align them.

We can set them up that way. We have coaching as well, so it would be the full monty with getting them the full access and then implementing that with their team. They might be moving certain people around. Most likely it will be that because that's the way to synergize the efforts.

It's tracking that, setting up a SaaS program where we have a bot that you communicate with and it feeds back information, so you know how is Becky's flow, how's Roger's flow and this is what's going on.

The SaaS system is the system that holds everything together to get accountability and also get awareness with yourself and your team so you can all be running together.

Even if it's a small company right now, and when I want to say a small company, I don't mean like five. I mean like 50 people, 100 people or something like that who have done this even as a beta test where as a company they're providing all of this yet.

We did that actually. We would start with why in their core team and then we have other teams that we've worked with and we're getting those results now, but I'm telling you, it's fired.

It works incredibly well. Your team cohesiveness goes up, they see each other like with my team when I understand them, we perform better. That gets extrapolated and compounded throughout every team member.

I forget which company did this, but I think it was the Myers-Briggs, I want to say. I don't remember exactly which one, but I know that when you went over to their offices, because I visited there, I can't think of the name of the company that did it.

Everybody's Myers-Briggs type was on the door of their office or on their cubicle so that you knew. They made it so mandatory that you guys need to know this.

I could see you guys could even create, if you go down this path with companies where you create almost like little office cubicle desktop badges so that everybody who does it, they can put it there and now it becomes like, “I'm an Alchemist, I'm an Architect,” or whatever.

Everybody knows what that means. I could see that as being a powerful and inexpensive product. That'd be easy to develop or whatever.

If a company signs on, I got 100 employees. I was like, “We're going to order 100 of these. What are all your people, have them take the types.” That would be powerful because it's also a tangible thing that people get and show that.

I would assume you might already be going down this road if you haven't, but obviously with those other companies you've done and you're getting all the data as they're feeding back.

Hopefully you're building up case studies in order to take this and showing maybe degrees of productivity or ways to rate that.

If you haven't already, I would find your champions where the people who are taking this, it says you've got like tens of thousands of people who have purchased this and downloaded it when you're talking to them.

It's the most obvious thing in the world if you haven't done it. You may have. Tell them, “We need your help. This is what we're doing and obviously why we're doing it and you're hopefully experiencing this. Here's who we're looking for.”

For instance, “We've done this with these different companies and they've achieved all this other stuff. We're trying to get an audience with executives who are looking to boost their productivity and employee wellness.

If you'd like to help champion our cause and make an introduction, we're happy to.” If you want them or not, if you haven't done that, it's so obvious, but I like to give as much feedback as I can.

We've done that a little bit, but I don't think we've doubled down on it as much as we probably should.

Your customers are the best people in the world because a lot of them may be entrepreneurs, and some of those entrepreneurs have clients.

A lot of those people are probably professionals and they work in a business and they might not even know that you guys have an opportunity to do this on a corporate-wide. I would definitely enlist them and give them the opportunity to help champion you guys.

That’s actually good feedback. You're right. We have amazing, huge lists of people that are getting results and they're in it. We might as well ask them to help us spread the love.

This has been so much fun. I can't wait to get my EVO Planner and I want to take some more of the tests and stuff like that.

I’ll send you that. I’ll send you the main assessment, but this has been a blast. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm glad you're here. We will have to do beers in flow. We can explore and alchemy together.

Let's do it.

Thanks a lot for joining me Chad. For everybody else, if you enjoyed this, send me some feedback, will you? I love it. Chad and I are here chatting away. I absolutely love when I get feedback from our readers.

I actually got an amazing unsolicited video testimonial from a subscriber named Jenny from Beer Talk Radio. It made me feel good and I want to give her a little bit of love for sending that to me.

If you guys have questions, you can ask me at You can also subscribe to the newsletter and leave me a voicemail.

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About The Guest: Chad Mureta

BWB Mureta | Finding Your Flow

Chad Mureta is an entrepreneur, author, speaker, and co-founder of Project EVO. EVO helps entrepreneurs and professionals find their flow by uncovering who they are and what they do best.

Since 2009 Mureta has led the development and marketing of more than 100 apps including the first “Emoji” iOS app that has been downloaded worldwide more than 155 million times

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