Bacon Wrapped Business With Brad Costanzo
BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

Todd Brown Reveals The Secrets Of Successful Marketing Funnels, Big Ideas And Converting Browsers Into Buyers


Looking for secrets to be successful with marketing funnels? Todd Brown has the answers. Todd is one of the foremost experts in creating highly profitable and online marketing funnels.

He is a direct response marketing expert that has been in the trenches for years, working with some of the top entrepreneurs and business minds out there—from Rich Schefren and Jay Abraham to Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton and many more.

Todd’s copy hacks and strategies have been used to create tens of millions of dollars not only for himself but also for his clients. He is on the show today to share his expertise in creating marketing funnels, front-end value, and what it takes to create a big idea.

Todd reveals strategies, tactics, and copy hacks that have been used to generate millions for himself, his coaching students, and his clients.

Some Topics We Discussed Include:

  • Todd’s background and work alongside Rich Schefren
  • An important lesson for all students of marketing
  • The Big Idea behind successful brands (example: The 4 Hour Work Week)
  • The two major things million dollar and multimillion-dollar funnels have in common
  • Two books every marketer should have in their library (and read multiple times per year)
  • The five levels of marketplace sophistication and why it's critical you know which you're in
  • Why you need to be aware of the buyer's psychological state
  • What Todd typically finds lacking in sales funnels?
  • What you should and shouldn't be testing in your marketing funnels?
  • Todd breaks down front-end vs. back-end direct sales marketing and why it's critical to know the difference
  • Tools for tracking life-time customer value and the numbers that matter
  • The three tools that Todd utilizes for creating funnels
  • The shift that Todd is currently making
  • The importance of having a premise and big idea
  • Resources for getting your next big idea

To learn more about Todd Brown and his strategies, tactics, and hacks, visit

About The Guest: Todd Brown

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing FunnelsTodd is one of the foremost experts in creating highly profitable and online marketing funnels. Todd is a direct response marketing expert that has been in the trenches for years. He’s worked with some of the top entrepreneurs and business minds out there. From Rich Schefren and Jay Abraham to Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton and many more. His client list consists of students from over 23 countries from all over the globe, many of which who are some of the most well-known Internet marketers today.

Todd’s copy hacks and strategies have been used to create tens of millions of dollars not only for himself, but also his clients. I’ve invited him on the show today to share his expertise in creating marketing funnels, front-end value, and what it takes to create the big idea.

Todd Brown Reveals The Secrets Of Successful Marketing Funnels, Big Ideas And Converting Browsers Into Buyers

I have a great one for you. I have to tell you right away that if you have little marketing knowledge or little business experience and you are just getting started, I may geek out on you on my guest on the show a little bit.

We are going to be talking about marketing funnels, increasing customer value, backend marketing, frontend acquisition and all these other buzz words that you may or not be familiar with. The episode is about how to build what’s called a marketing funnel, also referred to as a sales funnel.

A marketing funnel or a sales funnel is simply the path or process that a prospective customer takes when they first come across you, your information, your website, your story.

Also, their path of being a prospect to being a customer, and all the steps in between which increases how much they spend or how often they spend their money with you or the price or the frequency.

That’s the essence of a marketing funnel. It’s not that complex. It’s the same thing as you walk into a clothing store and a salesperson greets you and says, “Can I help you?”

Next thing you know, they are helping you add more clothes to your purchases. By the time you get to the check-out counter, you’re spending a lot more money than you may have wanted to do in the first place, especially if you are somebody like me.

That’s what marketing funnels and sales funnels are. I’m bringing on a guest named Todd Brown. Todd is one of the foremost experts in creating marketing funnels that are highly profitable and primarily online.

We are going to talk about online marketing funnels. One of the things that Todd is an expert in is the automation of these. If you try to manage these manually, it can be an absolute nightmare.

If you learn how to use tools and strategies to automate the process, then you can set it up, manage it and tweak it. It churns out money autopilot.

Todd has been in the trenches for probably a dozen years. He is a direct response marketing consultant and expert.

He has worked with some of the top entrepreneurs and business minds out there. People that I consider either as mentors or folks that I have read and studied everything they put out from Rich Schefren to Jay Abraham, Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton and many others.

His client list consists of students from over 23 countries around the globe. Many of which are the most well-known marketers in the online marketing community.

Todd’s strategies, tactics and copy hacks have been used to create tens and millions of dollars not only for himself, his coaching students and his clients.

I want to take a moment to welcome you, Todd, welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business. We’re going to share those sizzling hot business ideas of yours.

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here and honored to be a guest.

As I told the folks, we’re going to geek out a bit. I have a lot of questions that I have personally, both whether it was my own funnels or for my clients’ as well. I’ve followed your work quite a bit.

I remember when my first introduction to you was when you partnered up with Rich Schefren. When was that? How long was it ago did you start working with him to increase your profits?

I don’t remember the exact year, but that was many years ago.

I’ve been in the business for years, online, direct response and digital entrepreneurship. When I got into the business, I found Rich pretty soon.

I noticed that when you started working with him, I started to hear your voice on the video sales letters. It made me pay attention to what you were doing there. What was your role there? Were you in charge of implementing all of Rich’s wild ideas?

That was an awesome period in my professional life. I met Rich prior to moving to South Florida. I grew up in Central Jersey and I was working full-time for a company that owns several upscale health clubs in New Jersey.

I ended up making the decision that I was going to go out on my own and finally work full-time on my internet business. At that time, I was selling marketing and business building products to massage therapists.

I decided it was time for me to go full-time. That’s when I decided that I was going to move with Rich a few thousand dollars to have him coach me because that’s his forte and area of expertise.

I met him through that program, through having him mentor me and coach me in the area of business systemization. I told him, “I’m moving to South Florida.” It turns out where I moved was fifteen minutes away from the original Strategic Profits office.

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

The 4-Hour Workweek

We became friends. He started to ask me to come in and lend a hand when he was working on some reports and some projects. During one of the meetings, I said to him, “I’m thinking of sharing some of the stuff that I’m doing in my company.”

“I started a couple of different companies in a couple of different niches. I’m thinking about sharing the stuff that’s working with the main internet marketing community.”

He said to me, “Come aboard at Strategic Profits as a partner, run the marketing department and you can release whatever products, whatever programs it is you want to release.”

“You’ll be able to do it under the Strategic Profits brand. You’ll have the entire marketing team. All I ask is that you run and guide the marketing team.”

That’s what I did and it was an incredible experience. That’s when I started to work alongside guys like Jay Abraham. Jay coming in or me flying out for the day to meet with Jay. We had a copy that was being reviewed by Clayton Makepeace, even John Carlton.

That’s when I first met Mark Ford or most people know him under his pen name Michael Masterson. He and I became friends. It was an awesome time.

There is a parallel with my life and what you did there. I had multiple different products and multiple different niches. I sold my info product business a couple of years ago.

I had a few consulting clients that started off as friends. They became clients because I was helping them out a little bit. First, it started out to be free and then they started saying, “I’d love for you to come and work with me.”

One of my clients, Kent Clothier, in the real estate investment niche, has got a large software training coaching business in that area. He did the same thing.

We were brainstorming, masterminding and sharing ideas a lot. He said, “I’d love to have you come on and direct my marketing strategies, help me manage my marketing team and implement the stuff based on your knowledge.”

It’s been great. I still work with him. It has been a tremendous opportunity in myself to work with somebody else to spend their money on my hairbrained marketing schemes and funnel ideas.

You learn quite a bit, test quite a bit, see what works, deploy that with other clients, etc. It led to my growth tremendously by being able to work with folks like you and Rich.

It’s awesome to see the stuff you are doing on your own. You’ve got some amazing products out there and you can tell that none of that education and experience was wasted on you.

In all fairness, there were peaks and valleys. There were ups and downs. Rich is one of my dearest friends. We were texting and meeting. I’ve done some consulting for Strategic Profits.

Throughout that time together, I could share some stories with you from moments of hugging it out to almost coming to blows and everything in between. It was quite an adventure, to say the least.

Let’s scrap the rest of this interview and talk about all the bad times, the slugfests.

I’m sure we could fill up several podcast episodes with those. There is a lesson in that for everybody. I know this is a little bit off-topic, but I think it might be valuable.

Oftentimes you’ve got to be careful when you as a student of marketing, especially within the typical, “I am internet marketing community.” You have to be so careful that you don’t get sucked into what is presented to the market.

“Everything is great, life is dandy. I’m working an hour a day and we’re making millions of dollars every day, day in and day out.” I’ve never seen that and I have worked with the biggest, the baddest, the best and the most successful.

You have to be careful. You have to recognize that business is peaks and valleys. It is not a straight shot up to the top and that’s okay. We ran many campaigns, more than most people would care to admit, that didn’t work well.

We had to go back to the drawing board and tweak. It still didn’t work well so we had to go back to the drawing board. It wasn’t, “I’m at Strategic Profits now and everything is a grand slam.” That’s what I thought going in.

There is no Midas touch out there. It’s one of the biggest frustrations that I see a lot of people, myself when I started including.

Especially if you are selling how to create a business online or how to be an entrepreneur, your sales copy is not going to work well if you sell it the way you said it, if you’re too real. It’s a shame that we can’t be real. There is going to be a whole lot of work.

In The 4-Hour Workweek, I’m convinced that Tim meant it to be the 4-hour sleep week because that’s what it turns to. It is the up and downs. We’ve all faced them.

Entrepreneurship is not for everybody. It’s not easy. You have to have the guts to go on the roller coaster ride. I’ve heard many people say, “Marketing is nothing but guessing and testing.”

You have to recognize that business is peaks and valleys. It is not a straight shot up to the top and that’s okay. Share on X

You wouldn’t have to guess and test if everything worked out right the first time. It usually doesn’t. That’s why we take up a marketing funnel for instance. We have to constantly try new things, test new things and tweak them.

You probably know better than most, you can start with the marketing funnel and it’s humming along and suddenly it stops working. There’s nothing more gut-wrenching than watching something stop working nearly overnight and you have no idea why.

There are a couple of things you said in there that are worth talking about a little bit in terms of marketing. I’ll lay them out. If there’s one that jumps out of you that you want to dig in or dig deeper into, let’s do it.

Number one, it’s interesting that you mentioned Tim Ferriss. I was fortunate before Tim got big. I jumped on the phone with him and for an hour, I had the opportunity to pick his brain.

The thing that is interesting and has so much application to the development of marketing funnels is that The 4-Hour Workweek was this big idea that Tim came up with and tested in the marketplace with his Google AdWords to see what resonated with the audience.

If you think about The 4-Hour Workweek, it is a book on outsourcing, how to outsource, how to leverage other people.

There have been both prior to Tim and after Tim, lots of folks who have tried to roll out training products, courses, presentations on outsourcing and that didn’t and don’t resonate the way The 4-Hour Workweek does. It’s an example of a big idea.

Packaging your message under the umbrella of a big idea that stands out in the marketplace that captures the market’s attention. A message that’s compelling, that’s interesting and that is new. That’s what Tim did.

The other thing that I want to touch on was this idea of you can’t present this message to the market if you’re selling how-to, if you’re selling an information product, if you’re selling guidance and advice.

You can’t go to the marketplace and say, “It’s going to be tough work.” It’s not palatable to the market. It’s not exciting. It’s not compelling. This is something we can talk about a whole bunch.

This is where a lot of new marketers get hung up, when they are trying to figure out what is the best way to articulate my message through my marketing funnel, through my marketing campaign. The default ends up as this hyperbolic, hype-y adjective and adverb-laden copy that reeks of exaggeration.

If you want to go all the way to the other end of the spectrum, the million-dollar and multimillion-dollar marketing campaigns and funnels, they have two major things that they have in common.

Number one, they are all built up at the back of a big idea. That I had first learned and drilled into me from Mark Ford, from Michael Masterson. Agora, the $600 million a year information marketing behemoth has become that behemoth because of the guy who come up with big ideas.

It’s remarkable how they do that.

I have studied that extensively because of how critical it’s been based on what Mark has shared. The second thing is that their copy is not hyperbolic. It’s not laden with adjectives and adverbs. It’s based on claims and proof.

I asked you prior to this in a questionnaire if you have any favorite books, etc. You are one of the only people to say one of my favorite books I came across, Great Leads. It’s such a great book. Did Mark write that?

That was Michael Masterson and John Forde. That’s one of two books, the other book being Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz. Every marketer should have those two books and should be reading those books at least once a year, every single year.

Breakthrough Advertising, in my opinion, is hands down bar none the single most valuable book as it relates to marketing that’s ever been published. There’s nothing that comes close.

I have that book highlighted. Shout out to my buddy’s podcast Digital Triggers, which you guys should check out. You were on there. I heard you bring up something which is the levels of market sophistication.

I’ve parroted that to my clients many times. It has become a foundational principle of, “How do I sell this?” “Let’s talk about where your market is.” I know you know that well, but my readers may not. Expound on that a little bit. It’s five levels, right?

Yeah, it’s five levels of marketplace sophistication. To me, this is valuable. This should be the starting point of every marketing funnel and campaign. First and foremost, this idea was popularized by Gene Schwartz.

The idea behind different levels of marketplace sophistication is that as your prospects are exposed to more advertising messages, promises, claims and benefits, they become less responsive over time to those same claims, promises and benefits.

In order to continue to generate the response and move prospects, your marketing message needs to evolve as the sophistication level of your prospects increases.

The easiest way to explain is I typically use this example of a fat burner. The fat burning pills that you can take. At one point in time, there were no fat burners on the market.

There were people who were overweight, people wanted to lose weight. There were other options for weird, crazy exercise equipment and whatnot, but there were no fat burners.

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

Successful Marketing Funnels: In order to continue to generate the response and move prospects, your marketing message needs to evolve as the sophistication level of your prospects increases.


Some entrepreneur or company came out with the first fat burner. When they came out with their fat burner, there were no other competing messages and the market hadn’t been hammered yet with other advertisement.

Like what happens with every market, competitors saw that this was working. Companies saw and said, “We should come out with our fat burner.” More companies came into the market. The marketing message become incestuous and everybody is saying the same thing.

The prospects will go to the next level of marketplace sophistication. They are no longer responding to the same level as that original message.

The second level of marketplace sophistication is when you see the expansion of the claim. This is where you will see the majority of marketers in terms of crafting their marketing message operating. At level two, what you see is marketers will expand the promise.

They’ll blow up the promise and the claim even more. Instead of, “Take this pill and lose weight,” it’s, “Take this pill and you’ll lose seven pounds. Take this pill and you’ll lose twenty pounds. Take this pill and you’ll lose 30 inches.”

It’s like the old, “He has seven-minute abs, let’s come up with six-minute abs.” “They’re saying you can lose fifteen pounds. We’re going to say you can lose twenty pounds.”

What happens is that eventually, the market reaches a point where the bigger expanded claim is no longer believable. It’s no longer credible.

If we rolled out a marketing message that said, “Take this pill and you’ll lose 100 pounds.” No one is going to believe it. It’s not going to get bought because it lacks credibility. That’s when the market goes on to the next level of marketplace sophistication.

That’s level three. That’s the introduction of what we typically call the unique mechanism. The unique mechanism is the unique part, piece or component of your product or service that delivers the results and the benefit to prospects.

You see this all the time in infomercials where they say, “This thing cuts through cement, soda cans and everything you can imagine. The secret is in the German steel. Anytime they say, “The secret is in the X,” that’s the “unique mechanism.”

In our supplement example, the example I like to give is Garcinia cambogia. At one point, there were tons of fat burners in the market. Some companies came out with the first Garcinia cambogia supplement and the market went wild.

At that time, it was a unique mechanism. It’s like, “Take this pill and you’ll lose seven pounds because the Garcinia cambogia prevents the absorption of fat in your intestinal tract.” That unique mechanism is what gives the claim and the promise legs to make it believable.

It gives the prospect hope that maybe this is true because of the unique mechanism, the Garcinia. After a while, simply having Garcinia is no longer a unique mechanism. Other competitors come along and there are a dozen different Garcinia cambogia products.

Go to Amazon and you’ll see that right away. The market reaches level four. Level four is where you expand the unique mechanism. It is similar to level two, “It’s Garcinia cambogia. It’s pharmaceutical grade. It’s cold-pressed. It contains two times the dosage.”

“It’s more powerful. You add a colon cleanse to it to psych up the efficacy.” It’s that leapfrog. First, you leapfrog at the claim and the benefits and you leapfrog at the mechanism.

I always use the example in online marketing, “Did you know that you can make money online?” “That’s cool.” Next, “Did you know you can make millions online?” “Did you know you can make millions and work only four hours a week online?”

It turns to, “We have software that helps you make money online.” “We’ve got push-button software that all you have to do is buy our software, push a button and now you’re making money online. It can’t get easier than that.”

It’s the level of cynicism. I know it’s like market sophistication gets up. The more sophisticated they are, the more cynical they are about calling BS on what you are doing.

That’s a great point because as marketers, you need to be aware of that psychological state that your prospects are bringing to the table.

If you’re selling how to make money in the internet type of stuff, you can’t design a message as if these people are thrilled, excited, have never seen anything before and are not skeptical in a way.

You’ve got to design a message for an individual that is absolutely looking to find a crack in your armor, to find a little hint of, “I caught this person. That’s an exaggeration. That’s bogus. That’s BS,” so that they can bail.

The other thing about how to make money online, a perfect example of this whole marketplace sophistication in action is that when you go back twenty years into the Biz Op arena and look at old ads. I love to look at old-time swipe files.

You’ll see there are ads like, “How to make money with your computer.” Things like now, you would get killed. If we came out with a supplement and we say, “Take this pill and you’ll lose weight.” It will be like, “What?”

At level five, it’s no longer about the product. It’s now about the prospect experience. It becomes, “Are you sick of dieting, exercising, popping pills and never lose weight? Are you ready to throw in the towel on losing weight?” It becomes more about the psychological state of the prospect.

I want to dive down more on that and in your experience. This is always the part I know with myself and with some of my clients who are building products, whether it’s information products or whatever around that.

As your prospects are exposed to more advertising messages, promises, claims, and benefits, they become less responsive over time. Share on X

They are in that fifth level market sophistication. It is about the customer experience, sometimes personalizing it to the customer himself.

One of my clients is creating a product for the dating niche. Everybody’s heard, “You can pick up girls with this advice. You can pick up a lot of the best-looking girls with this advice.” There are all these little tricks and mechanisms out there that work.

He’s switching it into primarily for men recovering from divorce. Divorced men who are going through that dip. They have a lack of confidence. Giving them dating advice doesn’t work.

They’ll think, “This is for everybody else. Who understands what I am going through? Who understands that I have to start over from scratch?”

You start to see that in natural evolution. Everybody starts to tune out what’s being said in the market until somebody says, “I’ve got something for you.”

I definitely wanted to cover that. This is one of my favorite subjects that Eugene Schwartz covered. I would love to sit down with him and pick his brain.

As we are talking about marketing funnels, you said it starts with a big idea. It starts with, “What is this all about?” I know this is one of the first things that you look at when you are designing and building a marketing funnel, either for yourself or somebody else.

Let me sidetrack here. I know you’ve got products that you sell online like home study courses that people can access your brain as you’ve memorialized that information product. Do you work with clients as well?

Yes, if it’s a client that I’m excited to work with because I’m fascinated by either them, the way they work or something they’ve accomplished. Outside of that, I don’t take a whole lot of clients anymore.

If someone was sitting down with you and you’re going to help them with their funnel, do you prefer to optimize what’s already there or start over completely from scratch?

When you are looking at people’s funnels, do you think that most people have completely wrong or most people need a little bit of tweak?

As a whole, I would lean in favor of starting over. I’ll tell you exactly why. This something we can talk about for hours.

There are tactical stuff that makes up a funnel, especially in an online funnel. Things like the opt-in page or sometimes called the squeeze page, using a VSL or a long-form sales letter or one-click up cells.

There is no one set of tactics that work and everything else doesn’t work. It’s never the fact that they don’t have one critical tactic.

What I typically find missing or lacking is the overall messaging behind their sales argument starting with the big idea and how they are presenting their message to a prospect in order to get them to buy or get them to desire their product. It’s rare that I say, “Let’s put in this step or this step.”

Most of the time it’s, “If we go a step back, we identify a big idea. We build a message off of the foundation of that big idea with a solid sales argument that is loaded with benefit, claims and proof. We plug that in the existing tactical steps that you have, you are going to do infinitely better.”

There’s so much to talk about. I get so excited about this stuff. In the IM world, people get enamored with tactics, new plugins, all these weird bells and whistles on a page and whatnot.

If you look at a company like Agora, a $600 million a year information marketing giant, what you’ll find is they don’t get caught up in any of that. Why are they able to continue to crank and put up disgustingly huge numbers?

It’s because they’ve got a dialed message. They’ve got their copy. Before any copy goes out the door, they strive to make sure that it has a big idea.

There’s an obscure book. For the serious marketer, everybody should have it. This book is called Copy Logic. That book is written by Michael Masterson and Mike Palmer. Mike Palmer is arguably the best financial newsletter copywriter alive.

He is the guy who wrote the copy for The End of America promotion, which was a promotion for Stansberry Research which is a division of Agora. It was worth $250 million, some absurd number in terms of arguably frontend acquisition and backend.

That book details their process for scoring copy before it goes out the door. One of the things that they talk about in that book is if it doesn’t have a big idea and is not agreed upon by multiple people on the team, they don’t use it.

Forget what the headline is, forget the author, forget the body copy, forget all of that. If it doesn't have a big idea, it does not go out the door. It gets handed back to the copywriter and they say, “No.” They don't even work on it.

Do you know what I love about that book so much? I’m a copy geek. I have a love-hate relationship with copy. I think any copywriter does. If you sit down with a blank page, there’s nothing more excruciating.

I’ve probably done this in the past although I’ve been cognizant of it more so than other people who have given me copy. Has anyone given you a copy and said, “Todd, here’s my fifteen-page sales page. Here’s my VSL. Can you tell me what you think?” “Are you kidding me? About what?”

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

Great Leads

If this has ever happened to you or if you’ve ever written copy and are thinking about getting it critiqued, especially by someone who knows copy, read this book.

It is not only an efficient process, but it will stop you from asking the broadest most impossible question to answer which is, “What do you think?”

The first thing I’m thinking is, “I’m going to tell you everything that’s wrong with it.” That’s exactly what Copy Logic helps prevent. It’s from every one of us going into, “Let me tell you why you suck.”

Copy Logic and Great Leads, if I probably had only two market copywriting resources, you can get the whole 80/20 principles with that right there.

I was talking to Porter Stansberry. He was revealing one of the things. He said when he was writing his first sales letter, I think it was his railroad letter that launched his business.

He sat down and wrote it all out. He sat in Mark Ford’s office and they took turns reading it. Every other paragraph, every other micro paragraph back and forth, deciding if it’s confusing, unbelievable or boring.

Every single paragraph, he rewrote it. I’m not talking about tweaked it or revised it, but rewrote it eighteen times and hammered it down, especially the big idea.

The rest of it, the proof, points and the claims are easier to do because it’s more factual based. I was amazed at how much effort goes into creating a winning piece of copy.

One of my friends and clients works at Stansberry. The high ups that work with Porter said, “We started to put in upsells on our $49 a year newsletter. You’ll be amazed at how unsophisticated our marketing funnels are.”

That should be exciting for everybody reading. A buddy of mine, Joe Schriefer, is the copy chief for Agora Financial. I invited him to a mastermind meeting in Baltimore, which is where their office is. He shared with the group the same thing, “We are getting stuff in place.”

One of their big a-has was, “We implemented downsells off of upsells.” This is completely true. It was a few years ago at this local cigar bar when Rich Schefren shared with Mark the ugly VSLs, the typical Jon Benson.

Mark was enamored with it. He went back and told Bill Bonner. They ended up implementing the Ugly Sales Video Letter at Agora. It obviously changed the game for them.

Bill Bonner wrote Rich a letter saying, “We generated another ridiculous amount of money, $150 million because of these VSL.”

We’re often getting enamored with these little nitty-gritty myopic tactical things. The thing I learned from Mark on so many levels is the big idea. When you’re testing, test the things that scream not the things that whisper.

I remember when Rich and I were having a conversation about testing. Mark was there writing away on his laptop. He took his reading glasses off, looked up from his laptop and laughed at us.

He said, “Test the things that have the potential to double response. Test the big idea, test the promise, test the offer. Don’t get caught up in the background color on the web page.”

“Test things that have the potential to double response, the things that scream not the things that whisper.” On so many levels, he drove in.

That requires too much work, Todd. I have to only work four hours a week. The button color is an easy decision to make. I can't be working on all these big ideas.

There are a lot of tactical things that we went into and I still want to. I love that we are talking about this strategically. I think it is what other folks need to know. It is the stuff we need to be reminded of as well.

It’s easy to get caught when you do this for a living. When you build these things, it’s easy to get caught up in the little fun toys, plug-ins, gadgets and things that can help tweak our conversion.

At the end of the day, it's not the most important thing which is putting something valuable in the hands of somebody who needs it. That's what the whole sales funnel process should be all about.

Let’s talk about marketing funnels. Let’s get into some of the nitty-gritty. You talked about this on Digital Triggers. I want to build upon that. I want to give the people the premise to go back and listen to it if they want, but I want to take this to the next step.

For folks who follow online marketing, there's the trend to start from the lowest-end offer and ascend people to the funnel. The lead magnet to the low dollar, sometimes called the tripwire, your main offering and your upsells, etc.

It works. Get somebody in the door and pull their credit card out. If they buy something little, it’s a lot easier to upsell them and sell them after stuff when you get them a little on the front.

One of the things you mentioned and I agreed with is, “That can work. A lot of it depends. Many people end up thinking, ‘I am going to put this low dollar offer out, a free plus of a shipping offer.’” They don't pay much attention to it.

As marketers, you need to be aware of that psychological state that your prospects are bringing to the table. Share on X

They work in the backend way more than the frontend product. They end up putting up a crappy little frontend product.

It should be the exact opposite. Going back to Michael Masterson and his book, Ready, Fire, Aim, this was a big epiphany that I took out of there. The tip of the spear product should be your best, most epiphany-producing moment.

That should be the stuff that blows people away. It’s your frontend product. It’s harder to get someone’s money the first time than it is once you’ve got it. If you can razzle and dazzle them with your best stuff up front, the backend can be relatively generic.

It doesn’t have to be as cutting edge as the frontend stuff. I got that you felt the same way, that the frontend stuff should be remarkable.

When it comes to direct response for your audience, your marketing activities get divided under two umbrellas. The first is what we call the frontend. The frontend is all the marketing you do to prospects into an attempt to convert them into first-time customers.

All the marketing that you are doing with prospects that have yet to buy something from you, that’s what we call the frontend. The backend is all the more marketing that you do with existing customers.

The purpose of the backend is to deliver more value to customers through additional transactions in an attempt to grow the lifetime value of the customer. Meaning, what the average customer is worth to your company over the life of their patronage. That's the backend.

The purpose of the frontend is to acquire the maximum number of new customers. One of the things that I teach my clients is that on the frontend, you want to acquire as many customers as possible all the way down to breakeven.

What I mean by that is if you invest $1,000 in Facebook advertising, for example, our goal is to acquire $1,000 worth of new customers. Our goal is to acquire enough customers from that $1,000 ad spend, to recoup all of that $1,000.

Our goal is not to invest that $1,000 and make a profit. Our goal is to invest that $1,000 and make back the $1,000 plus customers and additional prospects. When you are able to breakeven, you’re acquiring customers for free. It’s not an expense like your telephone or your lights. It’s an investment.

Based on that, the question that I get from friends who are small business owners is, “Why would I want to breakeven? I’m in this business to make money. When do I make the money then?”

The savviest direct response marketers approach it is that the money comes on the backend. All the profit comes from the marketing that you do with existing customers. The reason for that is that the most expensive activity in any business is customer acquisition.

It’s expensive to acquire customers. In some markets and niches, it’s a lot more expensive than in others. It’s an extremely expensive activity.

When you’re able to absorb all of those customer acquisition costs on the frontend, when you acquire those customers for the first time, all the backend transactions are all of your profit. If you’re in the information business, the overwhelming majority is profit on the backend.

To get to the answer why I completely agree with your statement on the frontend you should be delivering the goods is because part of that frontend is acquiring maximum new customers. It’s also to acquire customers that you’ve then prep to buy your first backend product.

You exceed their expectations, you over-deliver value. You deliver a product to them that’s first and foremost in the way you deliver it, it turns them into a fan. The product itself turns them into a raving fan where they are thrilled with your frontend product.

That substantially increases the likelihood that they're going to buy your next product. It’s where you start to generate profit, when a direct response company understands the difference between frontend and backend.

On the frontend, if they’re delivering a little shoddy product. You’re acquiring new customers and you might even be acquiring maximum new customers at breakeven because of your frontend marketing.

The problem is that you’re not converting nearly enough of those new frontend customers into backend transactions because you’re not exceeding their expectations with that frontend product.

That’s important for people to know. I keep this in mind at all times where I heard Perry Belcher say it one time which was, “It’s never been harder to get somebody to spend money with you the first time, but it’s never been easier to get them to continue to spend money with you.”

There’s so much crap out in the marketplace. If they get something and you dazzled them the first time, make it easy. It’s easy from auto-responders to you name it. We can continue to sell to people. It’s never been easier to get them to continue to purchase with you.

Going back to the idea that it’s never been harder to get people to spend money with you the first time. Unlike our direct response ancestors, before social media and everything else, you cannot fool people anymore.

Before people buy, I guarantee to you they’re googling you, they’re finding out if there are reviews about you online. It means that you can’t bring the hype and expect to have an ongoing business. You have to deliver.

I want to rabbit trail over to a couple of the questions I’ve got when it comes to building these marketing funnels. I may ask you for some tools and some tips. These are some stuff that I want to know and hopefully, my readers do as well.

Here’s my biggest question. This has eluded me because I’m just techy enough to get in trouble. I’ve become an accidental expert in a lot of stuff. I end up breaking it then I have to figure it out myself as opposed to hiring the best of the best to figure it out for me.

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

Successful Marketing Funnels: The purpose of the backend is to deliver more value to customers through additional transactions in an attempt to grow the lifetime value of the customer.


Funnel analytics. Myself, some of my business partners, some of my mastermind partners have had a hard time locking down the most efficient way to track conversion analytics and customer value throughout the funnel.

I’ve used from Google Analytics to Paditrack, you name it. Is there anything you do to track the customer value from traffic source to conversion throughout the entire sales process in customer value?

I’ll tell you what we do and then I’ll explain a somewhat easy way for your readers to do it. I happen to use Infusionsoft at our company for years.

Inside of Infusionsoft, which is a pretty extensive and robust CRM, you’re able to run a lot of reports based on lead source, where is the lead coming from.

There are reports that you can run based on the frontend product that customers bought and average lifetime customer value.

This question is for me because one of the primary clients that I do this uses Infusionsoft. I want you to solve this problem for me. Let’s start with the Infusionsoft user because this is pertinent.

For your client, I get the report. I’m not sure exactly how the report is run but I’ll get you the instructions on exactly how we set up Infusionsoft and the report that’s run for me.

There are also a couple of tools that I’ll share with you for Infusionsoft that allow you to run reports that aren’t native to Infusionsoft. There are certain things that Infusionsoft doesn’t do that there’s a third-party plugin.

For the new marketer, don’t get caught up in measuring and monitoring every metric that either you’ve heard you should measure or that you’ve heard other marketers talk about when you’re initially starting off with a funnel.

Number one, the goal is to create a funnel that allows you to leverage paid traffic, cold traffic. It’s media buying if you will. Under the umbrella of media buying is Facebook advertising, Google ads are all paid traffic.

The reason for that is that with media buying, it’s totally under your control. You can scale it up, you can scale it down. You don’t have to worry about algorithms changes. You don’t have to worry about partners flaking out and disappearing.

You don’t have to worry about rankings disappearing in the search engines. It’s a fully scalable source of customer acquisition. That’s your goal, to create a funnel that allows you to tap into paid traffic.

When you’re leveraging paid traffic, you need to monitor your metrics from each paid traffic source as well as ad under each source.

One of the mistakes that I see a lot of marketers do, especially your typical mom and pop marketers that then end up coming online, is tracking your total ads spend and total investment in traffic under one umbrella.

Whether you spend $500, $5,000 or $50,000 a month, tracking that all like “We spent $10,000 this month on Facebook advertising, Google AdWords and Twitter advertising. We made back $10,000 in the form of new customers.”

That’s a mistake to track your advertising that way because it doesn’t tell you if maybe Twitter is bombing. It’s costing you money to use Twitter whereas Facebook is producing exceptionally well for you.

You need to track conversions throughout the funnel and return on investment from each of those different sources, Facebook, Twitter, Google AdWords. As well as if you’re running a different campaign, two different campaigns within Facebook, you need to track those separately.

When you are starting out, the most important number that you want to look at is return on investment. Numbers like opt-in rate and sales conversion rate are only valuable when you are optimizing your funnel or when you are looking to improve the results.

The reality is, you could have a 50% or 60% opt-in rate on your squeeze page and not make any money. You could have a 10% opt-in rate and be making bank.

It’s the same thing with your conversion rate. You could have a 15% conversion rate and be losing money. Yet, you can have a 2% or 1% conversion rate and be making bank. It goes back to what is the average visitor to your site worth and what is it costing you to get the average visitor to your site.

In essence, it’s return on investment. For every dollar that you spend to get a visitor to your site, how much money are you making back?

At the beginning when you’re rolling out a new funnel and testing the funnel in the market, the sole number that you want to look at is a lie.

You don’t begin to look at opt-in rates, sales conversion rates, the take rate on your different upsells until you’ve proven that your funnel is viable enough to then optimize.

Once you say, “We’re going to start to scale this funnel up, invest more dollars and cents into driving more traffic,” then you need to make sure that you are able to track every step of the funnel.

Here is where you need to be able to track what is the opt-in rate, what is the sales conversion rate, what is the order form abandonment rate, what is the take rate on your first upsell and your second upsell.

The most expensive activity in any business is customer acquisition. Share on X

You need to know what it is that those numbers are because those numbers will tell you what the constraint is in the funnel. Think of it like this, in every chain, there is one weakest link. That weakest link determines the strength of that chain.

If you strengthen any other links on that chain, you will not increase that chain’s strength. The chain strength is based on the weakest link. What we are trying to identify when it comes time to, “We’re getting decent results. Let’s see how we can improve this funnel.”

You don’t arbitrarily go in and say, “I’m going to work on the opt-in page. I’m going to work on the sales conversion rate or I’m going to work on the upsell rate.” You look for that weakest link, that constraint. That’s determined by those what I call optimization metrics.

Again, opt-in rate, sales conversion rate, order form abandonment rate, take rate on the upsell, even refund rate. That’s how you begin that whole process.

I’ve searched high and low for one tool that would allow you to do that. Unfortunately, there isn’t one tool that allows you to do that.

As absurd as is this going to sound, I continue to recommend to clients, one of the oldest, most basic tracking applications that you will find on the entire net. That’s HyperTracker. The beautiful thing about it is that it's a $19 monthly gig. It allows you to track an unlimited number of campaigns.

It allows you to see everything from how many clicks? How many visitors? How much in sales? How much is each customer worth? What did it cost you to generate a sale? What did it cost you to get a click? How many opt-ins? What’s the percentage of visitors to opt-ins? What’s the average sale?

You can track the sales from your upsells in there. You can see what is the average customer worth that goes through your funnel. That’s an essential foundational tool that’s brain dead simple to use.

There are others that are much more complex but that tool and just a couple of other stats or a couple of other applications and it’s a great start.

I’ve heard of HyperTracker. That’s been elusive for me because Google Analytics, I have a love-hate relationship with. It can be confusing and they give you so much data that everything is going on in your site.

Sometimes I just want to know, “This ad or this traffic source, how did it do all the way throughout the funnel?” We do use Infusionsoft. There’s a software we’ve used called a

It gives us a cool visualization. There have been a couple of confusing points where things don’t quite make sense.

I’ve tried to have this custom-coded before. Number one, I know this funnel is working on an overall ROI. I've spent X and I’ve made Y. Where are those little optimization points that I can make decisions on?

There’s no one simple answer. I’ve got a friend doing about $40 million with his business and it’s completely an online funnel. They do a lot of it manually. They have to go in and back out a hand full of statistics and look at it.

I’m interested in hearing what Infusionsoft reports that you said or plug-ins that aren’t native that are helping you out. This is one of the things that my tech team is doing for one of my clients. I would love to hear about that.

I’ll find out from the team exactly how the native reports that they run, which ones they are that they give me and also which third party plug-in we use to run some additional reports that aren’t native to Infusionsoft.

I had a meeting with a company. I won’t even mention the name of the company. They were a company that generates reports for all different aspects of your marketing.

I was floored at what they wanted to charge us monthly. I said to the guy, “I’ve got to be honest with you. The upfront I can see, but the monthly is like you want to charge me more than what we pay for almost all of our applications combined.”

For everybody reading, HyperTracker is a visual disaster when you look at it. It’s so easy to use and it gives you such essential metrics. This is my opinion.

Many years ago, I dove deep into Google Analytics. I even went as far as to go to a two-day workshop. What you can do with Google Analytics is insane. However, it’s complicated and if you have the wrong bit of code on the wrong page, you could virtually botch all of your analytics.

Now, we use Google Analytics for just that, for analytics, for page views and what are the most popular pages, the time on-site and what percentage of our visitors are coming from what geographic areas and on what devices.

When it comes to ad tracking, when it comes to tracking how much money are we spending on a particular ad and how well that ad is working, we always use third-party tracking. I love the simplicity of HyperTracker.

When you build your sales funnels, visually or whatnot, do you build this all in HTML or WordPress? Do you optimize press? Are there any tools that you tend to favor?

I’ll tell you three that we utilize. The bulk of our stuff is done in OptimizePress 2. I’m a big believer in out-of-the-box solutions. I remember I could tell you when I was at Strategic Profits running the marketing. We had tons of customs stuff designed.

I didn’t want to have those custom things designed but we had custom things designed. It was a beast and having it designed. Everything that we wanted to add to it had to be custom-coded. No go, not my recommendation.

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

Breakthrough Advertising

The bulk of what we utilize is OptimizePress 2. There’s a ton that you can do with OptimizePress 2. We also use Leadpages a little bit. Clay is a friend. It’s a great company, a great application and he’s a great guy.

We’ve been using it less is because it doesn’t give as many customization options as OptimizePress does. Many people in the markets that I operate in use Leadpages. I don’t want to have the same looking pages as everybody else. It gives prospects the ability to judge it fairly quickly.

The third application that we’re using more, and we’re going to be doing something a little formal with this application, is ClickFunnels. It has a lot of potential. They’ve come quite a distance.

I was chatting with Russell on Skype and I’ve communicated with one of their programmers about some integration things that they’ve changed since. It is shaping up to be a phenomenal application.

There are a couple of things that they need to tweak but it’s almost like every tool that you need under one umbrella.

I interviewed Russell for the show back then and it was when I was still in the beta version. Did you ever get in on the beta version of ClickFunnels 1.0?

Yeah. That scared the crap out of me. I couldn’t get anything to work at the time.

He changed it. It was completely new and then they launched it out. I was blown away by how good this new version is. I liked the first version and I saw it had a lot of potential but a lot of work to do. This new one has been killer.

I saw Russell and some of his support team at an event that Mike and Andrew Jenkins were having here in San Diego. His support guys came out from behind the things like, “We’ve got to take a picture with you.”

I’m so vocal in a good way. I’m always saying, “Here are the ideas, here are some bugs, here are some things.” I was impressed at how quickly they move on making feature requests, fixing bugs and making this thing roll out. I’ve been slowly moving everything over to ClickFunnels as quickly as I can.

I love the fact with ClickFunnels that Russell is developing it for his use. You know that as he tests things and others test things that prove to be effective, he’s going to implement them in ClickFunnels.

Russell had one of his sales pages that I swiped him, waiting for him to put the templated version in Clickfunnels. Did you ever buy his DotComSecrets Lab book?

I bought DotComSecrets Lab from day one. That was such a great publication.

What’s even better is the page that he uses to sell it, I swiped that. I was looking at some stats. We did a big email solo ad and ran 5,000 clicks to it. Anybody that wants to see it, go to

What’s neat about this is there’s a little order bump right there. I know you know what I’m talking about. It’s like, “Buy this for $4.99 plus free shipping.”

There’s one little thing right before you buy this, “By the way, would you like to get this template for $37? It’s easy.” There are two kinds of copy.

I remember seeing that and just the entire way that the entire thing is built. For a conversion expert like yourself, I was slapping my forehead. 42% take rate on that $37 bump. It’s the same exact concept. Worst I’ve ever had is 25% take rate on that.

To make sure that everybody reading totally gets what you’re saying. If I remember correctly because I bought it. It was his crusher template. The main offer on the page was basically free but you paid the shipping of $6 or something like that.

There was one checkbox. It was literally one sentence that was like, “Do you want to add this to our crusher template?” It was brilliant on so many levels.

Strategically, it was one of those things that you couldn’t get it anywhere else. It wasn’t offered anywhere else. That was the only opportunity that you had to get it.

On a strategic and psychological level, there were so many things going on but look at that one little thing and how it radically changed the frontend transaction value for Russell and for you.

If we would have just had that by itself, the frontend customer value would have been selling for $4.99 or $5.99, not including all the upsells. That would’ve been the customer value. It immediately made our customer value on the frontend $29 on average with all the people taking it.

It was a game-changer. Go study that if you want an awesome frontend offer. I want to use that on everything. I have to ping Russell after this saying, “Russel, Todd and I blew you up and gave you a whole bunch of accolades on this stuff so share this.”

What’s a nut you’re trying to crack or something else you’re trying to achieve? I’m not talking about just, “I want to sell some more stuff.” Obviously, that could be part of it.

What’s a nut you’re trying to crack that either you don’t have the time, the resources, the people, anything? Something that you’re working on like the big goal or an obstacle.

In every chain, there is one weakest link. That weakest link determines the strength of that chain. Share on X

I don’t know if this is the answer or where you’re going with this. For my business, it’s trying to figure out and nail the most efficient way to turn over the big idea/copy development, so that the company isn’t solely relying on me to be the one to generate these marketing ideas.

This was an issue for me for a long time and somewhat still is that a lot of marketers don’t invest enough time thinking through their products and the positioning of those products and think through gaps in the market.

I want to give you an example before we wrap up that will be somewhat inspirational for everybody. It’s not an easy thing to come up with big ideas. Most of the ideas I come up with probably aren’t big ideas, that’s the truth.

You’ve got to develop, nurture a lot of ideas to come up with a single big idea and you have to do it constantly. It’s not like you can sit down once a month for twenty minutes and bang out five big ideas. It absolutely does not work that way, at least it doesn’t for me or anybody that I know.

I’ve found it difficult to nail that process internally. That’s something we’re working on, developing a bit of a big idea team if you will and then the extension of that is the copy team.

That’s definitely a tough nut to crack because it usually is one of the highest value activities that any person can be doing. I like the fact that you said that it is a factory. You’re not just trying to outsource it, you're not going to find somebody on oDesk to do it.

You’re not just going to bring somebody in and say, “Here, you do this.” It’s how you can collaborate, work with others and churn those out quicker.

You look at Agora as a whole. It’s why they have their best most talented marketers working on the frontend. The frontend is the most difficult because it requires the biggest, best ideas. Whereas the backend, it doesn't require nearly that at all.

They allocate their best resources to the development of big ideas on the frontend. It’s a weird thing for me on a personal level. The whole idea of starting with a big idea before you get into nitty-gritty tactics, before you start to follow headline formulas and whatnot.

That’s become my mantra. I’m trying to get folks to grasp my tribe, the foundational necessity of like, “You’ve got to have a premise behind your marketing message.” That is viewed as new, exciting, different, compelling, timely, fresh.

There is so much that’s competing for your prospect's attention. It’s not like it was years ago. Between people that just are cynical, they’re skeptical more so than they’ve ever been before.

They’re inundated with more marketing messages, hype, and promises than ever before. They’ve been burned more times than ever before. They’re open now because of a global economy. They’re too burned, so they’re that much more on guard.

You need a message that’s going to stand out and captivate attention. Two things with that, a lot of marketers don’t even understand it, they’re not aware of it, because they’ve been taught it’s only about the formulas.

There’s certainly value in formulas but it goes beyond that. The other thing is that, and this is my big thing, is that it’s not easy to sell. It’s a lot easier to sell people on software that generates traffic or on a five-email sequence that will bring you $40,000 or something like that.

It’s not that easy to sell people on, “You need to come up with a big idea.” For me, I believe so much that it is critical from everything that I’ve seen and from everything that I’ve done.

From experiences with tons of clients that have gone from your typical promise-based marketing to bigger ideas marketing. I’ve seen the benefits, the transformational benefits. For me, it’s my mantra.

For the folks that don’t want to hear it, I’m not the one for them. For the folks that get it and understand the value, I’m your guy.

Do you teach? You have multiple courses online. What’s the best place for these folks to find you and your products?

There are two things, If you go to you’ll be able to read some cool articles and stuff like that.

We also have a cool, little, free four-part video series that ultimately leads to the introduction of our product. One of our training courses is at the end. That’s at

To answer your question, the program that launched Marketing Funnel Automation, the whole brand. To my surprise and delight, a bunch of well-known marketers went through and raved about it. That is this eight-week coaching program.

It’s not even publicly open, so it’s not for sale or anything. The first module which is a 2.5-hour module is all about a big idea, dominant resident emotions.

That’s exactly what I was going to ask you. Do you provide any resources through any of your products, coaching, etc. for people to dial in on that? If you’re reading this you’re probably thinking, “I’m worried about the little stuff. I should be worrying about that big idea.”

Number one question, what do you provide that helps people? Second of all, what else do you suggest that people study? Like Breakthrough Advertising, Great Leads, awesome for big ideas out there. You were mentioning that you have part of your coaching program.

We have a course that’s an eight-week program. During week one, to lay the foundation, I cover that. I’m doing a live event down here in South Florida for a tiny group of marketers about the big ideas. I’ve got my buddy, Rich Schefren, coming in, the copy chief from Agora.

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing Funnels

Copy Logic

More importantly for your readers, Breakthrough Advertising is a great book. Specifically for the big idea, one of the things that I would do is pay attention to the marketing promotions that come out of Stansberry Research.

You can go to Subscribe to their free email list and study their promotions. You’ll see multiple promotions that come out every single month. They’re extremely prolific.

That’s one of the other reasons why I think that it is important for us internally to develop a little bit of a big idea team and then the extension of that, the copy team. It is so critical to be prolific especially in the information marketing arena.

You need to come up with a lot of ideas, a lot of big ideas over time. Study Stansberry Research promotions because you’ll see that they lead with big ideas. Every Stansberry promotion is selling some financial advice service. Most of the time on the frontend, it’s a newsletter.

You’ll see these 30, 40, 60-minute videos that are loaded with claims and proof out the wazoo that are selling a $49 newsletter. That’s $49 for a year, not even $49 for a month. That’s their customer acquisition.

Have you ever seen the Stansberry Alliance, the lifetime membership offer? That’s one of the most brilliant things I’ve ever seen, the way it’s phrased etc. I’ve got something to swipe and put some annual maintenance fee.

It’s unbelievable and it’s funny because I’m comfortable in my manhood to admit it. I’ve read so many of their promotions and I study everything that they do. I go into these sales letters as a marketer and looking for what’s this big idea and why did they say this, why are they leveraging this now?

By the end, I’m subscribed to a dozen newsletters. In every newsletter, I’m like, “It is about goal. I need to subscribe right now.” It’s so good. I go in knowing this is a sales letter, this is sales copy.

I go in not with the intention of buying and by the end I’m like, “America is ending. I need to buy this right now.” That’s the best thing to do. To study and to see that they’re selling these financial publications.

I’m sharing that because I want you to understand that they’re not leading with a headline and a promise on how to get rich in stocks, how to turn dividends into $1 million.

There’s a new railroad in America that is going to make people rich. It’s the end of America, it’s the plague of the Black Death or whatever.

It cuts through the clutter. It’s new, it’s fresh, it’s different, it’s both intellectually as well as emotionally compelling. That’s one of the best things that you can do. That will start to open your eyes, get you more sensitive to the big idea.

The last thing that I’ll say is when it comes time for you to begin to apply that to your own marketing, you want to look for something in your products, something in the message that you are going to deliver to prospects.

That would be startling, shocking, controversial, different, new. Whether it’s a different word, a different phrase or a different way to state something.

Ninety-nine out of 100 times, when I talk to either a coaching student or a consulting client and we’re working on the big idea, it never comes from the superficial standard stuff.

It always comes from digging deep and they’ll say one word or they’ll say, “When I was at the mechanic.” There you go, it’s different, it’s unique, it’s startling, it’s arresting, it’s not typical.

It’s the art behind the entire process and that’s what’s great about it. The last question for you is, what can we all expect to see from Todd Brown? If it all goes according to plan and we know that plans always go super smooth. Anything in particular?

More intimate live events that are more designed for the marketer that thinks a little differently and that understands when you nail the message. I know that I sound like a broken record and everybody's probably like, “We get it.”

More intimate live events to bring marketers up an entire level in their understanding of what that means, how to do it and how to do it consistently in their automated marketing funnels.

This is officially our longest podcast but that means that you brought the bacon. There are definitely some sizzling hot ideas here. I want to thank you for being on the show and sharing all this stuff.

If you’re reading this, I hope you don't feel as though this was a free podcast. The stuff that we’ve talked about in here could easily be packed inside a pricey report or a home study course.

It’s not often that you get to sit and learn from somebody like Todd or pick his brain or pay attention to me pick his brain and find out how to create a marketing funnel, a marketing campaign and a big idea that sells and makes a difference.

Todd is responsible for tens of millions of dollars of sales online and between the two of us, we’ve seen a lot. I hope you’re taking away how valuable this is. If you are, I want to ask you to do a couple of things.

Number one, if you got other folks, other colleagues, other people in business that you think might enjoy this, share this. Share it to social media, Twitter, tag me, tag Todd and go over to Todd’s website,

Sign up for his four-part series, check out what he has to offer. I’m telling you there are not many other people that I think you’re in as good hands with Todd and to learn from. Invest in his intellectual property that he’s put out there for you.

Leave a review on iTunes. Leave a comment on the blog, share this, get this out there. The more feedback that I get from you, the more I’ll do this.

If you are looking for a second opinion on your marketing funnel or what your big idea is or your copy or just anything else and you think that I could have an impact on you.

Shoot an email over to and I’ll take a look if I can help you. If I can’t, I’ll forward you on to somebody who may be able to or suggest a resource like one of Todd’s courses for instance.

If you have any other ideas for guests, people that you’d love to see featured, love to see if they can bring home the bacon like Todd did, let me know. Send it to Todd, I appreciate your time. I’m going to let you rock and roll. I’ve enjoyed it.

Me, too. I had a blast. I can’t believe how the time flew by. It was my pleasure and my honor. I hope to have the opportunity to do it again with you.

I’m looking forward to seeing you in person. I love you all. Keep sharing and I look forward to sharing the next episode with you. Thanks a lot.

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About The Guest: Todd Brown

BWB Todd | Successful Marketing FunnelsTodd is one of the foremost experts in creating highly profitable and online marketing funnels. Todd is a direct response marketing expert that has been in the trenches for years. He’s worked with some of the top entrepreneurs and business minds out there. From Rich Schefren and Jay Abraham to Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton and many more. His client list consists of students from over 23 countries from all over the globe, many of which who are some of the most well-known Internet marketers today.

Todd’s copy hacks and strategies have been used to create tens of millions of dollars not only for himself, but also his clients. I’ve invited him on the show today to share his expertise in creating marketing funnels, front-end value, and what it takes to create the big idea.

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